Holding marathon pace

Maybe if you can hold it for up to 22 miles, then you're okay.

Don't be lazy, but also don't overwork yourself. When I used to run long-distance, my long runs used to be 14, 15 miles. And then when I trained for marathons, my max long run was 22 miles.

However, if you've been running for 3-5+ years, then 18-20 miles of marathon pace training should be enough for the full one.

Is this something you've already done or something you plan to do? If you've already done it, you can probably answer your own question better than anyone here. If you got to 20 miles at MP and felt fresh enough to do another 10k at that pace, then yes, you have the potential to hold it.

20 miles at MP as a workout sounds like you are an elite runner. Your question makes you sound less experienced. If you haven't already done the workout, consider the reasons you're planning it. Just for psychological reasons? I mean, the real way to know if you can hold it all the way is to hold it all the way... on race day. I know experienced guys who feel challenged to hold MP for 16 miles during marathon training but maybe you have some special considerations for wanting to do the workout.

Guess I'm just using it for a confidence booster. I've hit 18 miles at mp but was pretty whipped, also only had 2 gels..

Yeah, most elite athletes won't do 20 miles at Marathon pace before the race. That's a bit too much. I'd say if you can run marathon pace for a half marathon in the middle of a training block, you can run that pace for a full marathon if you are trained and tapered correctly.

Marathonskeptic wrote:

Guess I'm just using it for a confidence booster. I've hit 18 miles at mp but was pretty whipped, also only had 2 gels..

If you are taking two gels in an 18 mile run you are definitely not elite.

Marathonskeptic wrote:

Guess I'm just using it for a confidence booster. I've hit 18 miles at mp but was pretty whipped, also only had 2 gels..

Except that it didn't end up boosting your confidence? Feeling "whipped" at the end of 18 at MP seems about right, so it shouldn't destroy your confidence.

As another poster indicated, your goal MP should be the best you can do over the full distance on race day after proper sharpening and tapering. Without tapering etc., asking yourself to run 3/4 of a marathon at goal pace is risky if you're hoping to get a confidence boost.

Next time maybe something like 4 miles easy + 5 miles progressing towards MP + then the last 9 at MP. Or maybe the last mile a little faster than MP. Still a great workout and with MP at the end, maybe enough evidence to satisfy your curiosity about how MP is gonna feel with 10-12k left to race.

Good luck!

Right it didn't boost my confidence. I'm coming off a lackluster marathon, so I'm kinda surprised I'm even going this again ,but I've been running some of my fastest times to date. So figured why not...

Thinking of doing 20 tomorrow, maybe 10 easy, 10@mp. That better?

I’ll echo what Coach Jeff said and add encouragement that if you can handle 18+ at goal MP, you should be ready to rock on race day. Personally, I’ve found success in maxing out at 12 miles at MP in the middle to end of a 22 to 24 mile run be a sufficient enough gauge - and I’ve felt pretty worn out at the conclusion of those!

You'll be ? 18 miles is actually impressive.

I've never made it past 16 miles at pace in training.

Normally 10-13 miles is my max effort and it's not usually easy.

I think my best indicator workout is 26k of 1 k at pace and 1k slightly slower or 4x5k.

I've always felt good on race day when fresh.

No one should be doing 18-20 miles at MP before race day so I don't know how to even answer this question. I know there are different training systems and that, for instance, some of the Daniels plans have you doing long runs with 14-16 at MP, but 18+ is something I've never heard of. If it's your true MP- 20 to 40 secs slower than LT depending on speed- and you're well trained, doing 20 miles at MP in the middle of a training block should leave you wrecked and unable to hit anything hard for weeks. I'd even question the rest of your training if you're even capable of running 20 miles MP mid-block. I personally have never done more than 10 (have loosely followed Hanson's for the last several blocks) and have never felt like I could have sustained more than a half at MP on fatigued legs, pre-taper/carb load.

Marathonskeptic wrote:

Thinking of doing 20 tomorrow, maybe 10 easy, 10@mp. That better?

Yes. Have a good run.

When I suggested you try something different next time, I didn't mean necessarily your next long run. Was this 18-miler just last week? If so, do you think you're recovered enough to do 10 more at MP this week? What I meant was "next time you want to check on your progress" at holding MP for an extended period of time. You took care of that already. Do you need to do it again so soon? These are not rhetorical questions; they are actually things to think about as you plan your longest run of the week.

Well I did 18.. 10@7:11, 8@6:55 lol

Like everyone rise said - 18 at M pace is too much. I never got more than 13 or so, and even that's a struggle midcycle.

Smoove wrote:

Like everyone rise said - 18 at M pace is too much. I never got more than 13 or so, and even that's a struggle midcycle.

If I recall correctly, Canova typically has his runners work up to MP + 5% for long runs.

Don Alfredo wrote:

Smoove wrote:

Like everyone rise said - 18 at M pace is too much. I never got more than 13 or so, and even that's a struggle midcycle.

If I recall correctly, Canova typically has his runners work up to MP + 5% for long runs.

I've read that's what he has has elite runners do. That's why I wondered if the OP was an elite marathoner. But Canova feels that this kind of workout is a difficult one and requires sufficient recovery. OP seems to have felt sufficiently recovered to handle the effort. I just thought I'd clarify what I meant.

Looks like the OP is shooting for sub-3:00! Good luck on race day!

Marathonskeptic wrote:

Well I did 18.. 10@7:11, 8@6:55 lol

Can't wait too see this epic bonk on race day, do come back with the sob story.

If I bonk I bonk.. have to try though

I did 22 miles at 6:16 pace (with a fast finish going sub-6 Pace for the last few miles) going for a sub-2:45 while training for Boston. I also did 3 other long runs between 6:26-6:28 pace (my original goal was sub-2:50). I have done 4 20-22 Mile MP long runs alternating weekends in my last 2 marathon training cycles and plan to do the same for NYC this year. Unfortunately the cold weather got to me and I ended up with a 2:54 at Boston.