can you just tell me, i have the attention span of a biological male.
can you just tell me, i have the attention span of a biological male.
Not right wrote:
social, not biological wrote:
Yes hormone levels can be measured, but so what? Gender is a social construct. What does measuring hormones have to do with it?
If they have the hormones levels of a male, they must compete as male, and if hormone levels of female, they must compete as females. That presumably would have prevented those two transgender individuals from winning the girls race unless they had the metablolic make-up of a female.
Gender is a social construct. What aren't you understanding about this? Gender is not defined by hormones levels, so there is no such thing as having the hormone levels of a boy.
Not right wrote:
I've got it. How do parents like the idea of a transgender wrestler groping their daughters?
Let that sink in. Bring it on. That will force the issue. You want them grabbing and grunting and gripping all over the girls? How pleasant of a thought is that?
And it's already a reality:
https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/transgender-texas-wrestler-wins-second-high-school-girls-title-n851106The issue just has not been thought out far enough yet.
just look at the look on the refs face....
"i have to do this, but i dont agree with it ONE BIT"
Bob Schul country wrote:
As a long time track coach.....this makes me sick. Being a transgender is a state of mind. Not a state of biology.
What if it is biology? What if the person develops outwardly male traits (penis, for example) but hormones or maybe something in the brain develops identification with more commonly accepted female traits? What is something in the hormone mix causes a mismatch? Then it could very well be biological.
Many gay men and transgendered people I have met say that they remember feeling the way they did as far back as they can recall. I remember the parents of a trans girl who said she was born a boy but from the earliest days tended to do more "girly" things.
Even sex is tricky as seen by the intersex issue. Ross Tucker has some very good writing on this.
It is complicated and I do not see any decision is going to make everyone happy.
To end this madness, all we need is men to deliberately enter all women's sport - claiming to be women - and wipe women's sports off the planet.
By the way, how does this work in changing rooms and communal showers?
Previously. I man trying to pass himself off as the woman in such places could be arrested as a sex pervert. Come to think of it, how do we separate male sex perverts, from "genuine" trans-gender people?
ProudSnowflake wrote:
DiscoGary wrote:
What hatred? What bigotry?
We're simply saying they are not girls, and that it is unfair to let them compete as girls. All the hatred I see is coming from trans supporters.
They are girls. The trans community faces high rates of suicide because of bigots like you who don’t accept them for who they are. And you think killing and alienating the trans community makes you on the right side of history.
Maybe if you spent more time educating yourself you wouldn’t be an alt right Republican.
What if there was a child confined to a wheel chair for the rest of their life and some adult kept telling them that if they thought they could walk, then they would be able to walk? And then that adult went around telling all the other adults to say that the child is walking when clearly they are not. Every one goes around pretending that the child is walking while they sit there in the wheel chair.
What do you think of that situation? Is that compassion? What is it?
social, not biological wrote:
Not right wrote:
If they have the hormones levels of a male, they must compete as male, and if hormone levels of female, they must compete as females. That presumably would have prevented those two transgender individuals from winning the girls race unless they had the metablolic make-up of a female.
Gender is a social construct. What aren't you understanding about this? Gender is not defined by hormones levels, so there is no such thing as having the hormone levels of a boy.
social, not biological wrote:
Not right wrote:
If they have the hormones levels of a male, they must compete as male, and if hormone levels of female, they must compete as females. That presumably would have prevented those two transgender individuals from winning the girls race unless they had the metablolic make-up of a female.
Gender is a social construct. What aren't you understanding about this? Gender is not defined by hormones levels, so there is no such thing as having the hormone levels of a boy.
Testosterone levels then? Estrogen levels? I know there's something.
Let me ask this: were those two winners of the race, the transgender individuals, allowed to go into the locker room with the girls and shower?
There are differences, and need to come up with meaningful definitions and determinants. And we need to do this without jumping to extremes and assuming that other interests have no credibility.
It doesn't matter how much a biological woman WANTS to be equal in athletics to biological men, or how much we might encourage them to be so. Either you're a troll, or your ignorance is ASTOUNDING. Just one example for you: Serena Williams is arguably the best female tennis player who ever lived, but take just a few minutes and Google what she says about playing against men. You can find YouTube videos of it. And that's just one example. We're not talking about men vs. women in intelligence, logic, work ethic, ambition, or dedication. We're talking about across-the-board purely athletic ability. The average biological female cannot fairly compete against the average biological male, nor can the very best biological females fairly compete against the best biological males. It's no reflection on worth or merit, but simply a fact. Women are indeed very capable in many pursuits, and most men would agree that in many ways women are actually better than men. But not in sports where physical speed and power are the prime factors. If you're not actually just trolling, and you truly believe what you're saying, then you're as delusional as the male wannabe females you're supporting.
social, not biological wrote:
Not right wrote:
If they have the hormones levels of a male, they must compete as male, and if hormone levels of female, they must compete as females. That presumably would have prevented those two transgender individuals from winning the girls race unless they had the metablolic make-up of a female.
Gender is a social construct. What aren't you understanding about this? Gender is not defined by hormones levels, so there is no such thing as having the hormone levels of a boy.
Well you are either born with a penis (aka being a male) or you are born with a vigina (aka being a girl). I have nothing against transgender individuals and I want them to have all the rights as everyone else, but when it comes to sports, you either need to have no gender classes, create a transgender classification or have those individuals compete with their biological sex. To ingnore the unfair advantage these transgender athletes have against their female competitors is ridiculous and asinine
Really wrote:
social, not biological wrote:
Gender is a social construct. What aren't you understanding about this? Gender is not defined by hormones levels, so there is no such thing as having the hormone levels of a boy.
Well you are either born with a penis (aka being a male) or you are born with a vigina (aka being a girl). I have nothing against transgender individuals and I want them to have all the rights as everyone else, but when it comes to sports, you either need to have no gender classes, create a transgender classification or have those individuals compete with their biological sex. To ingnore the unfair advantage these transgender athletes have against their female competitors is ridiculous and asinine
No offense, but it's kind of hard to have a conversation about this with someone who is so cis-normatively ignorant that they don't understand the difference between sex and gender.
DiscoGary wrote:
ProudSnowflake wrote:
They are girls. The trans community faces high rates of suicide because of bigots like you who don’t accept them for who they are. And you think killing and alienating the trans community makes you on the right side of history.
Maybe if you spent more time educating yourself you wouldn’t be an alt right Republican.
What if there was a child confined to a wheel chair for the rest of their life and some adult kept telling them that if they thought they could walk, then they would be able to walk? And then that adult went around telling all the other adults to say that the child is walking when clearly they are not. Every one goes around pretending that the child is walking while they sit there in the wheel chair.
What do you think of that situation? Is that compassion? What is it?
I would be proud and supportive of the child and help them in their lives.
While the child is struggling to make it up stairs you’ll chide him for not being good enough of a walker and them get upset when the child wants fair treatment.
But his struggles are not good enough for you, you’ll just vote in more republicans to cut funding to build wheelchair ramps and prevent him from getting access to healthcare. And while he cannot make it up the stairs you’ll say he’s not contributing enough to society and want him fired.
ProudSnowflake wrote:
...
But his struggles are not good enough for you, you’ll just vote in more republicans to cut funding to build wheelchair ramps and prevent him from getting access to healthcare. And while he cannot make it up the stairs you’ll say he’s not contributing enough to society and want him fired.
That right there shows everyone what this is all about, and it isn't about helping anyone overcome mental health issues. It's about endlessly demonizing your political opponents.
It's always the Victims vs Villains game for fun, profit, and power.
The top ten times on Athletic.net for boys 1600 in the U.S. range from 4:03 to 4:08. The top girls' times range from 4:42 to 4:45. I'm sorry, but the top U.S. girl's time would not have even qualified for the boys' race in our league meet (4:35 was the slowest seed time). There is a significant difference in performance. I support transgender people, but I feel sorry for the girl who placed third.
nimblenw wrote:
The top ten times on Athletic.net for boys 1600 in the U.S. range from 4:03 to 4:08. The top girls' times range from 4:42 to 4:45. I'm sorry, but the top U.S. girl's time would not have even qualified for the boys' race in our league meet (4:35 was the slowest seed time). There is a significant difference in performance. I support transgender people, but I feel sorry for the girl who placed third.
pointing out FACTS proves your a bigot and intolerant!!! burn this man!!
social, not biological wrote:
Really wrote:
Well you are either born with a penis (aka being a male) or you are born with a vigina (aka being a girl). I have nothing against transgender individuals and I want them to have all the rights as everyone else, but when it comes to sports, you either need to have no gender classes, create a transgender classification or have those individuals compete with their biological sex. To ingnore the unfair advantage these transgender athletes have against their female competitors is ridiculous and asinine
No offense, but it's kind of hard to have a conversation about this with someone who is so cis-normatively ignorant that they don't understand the difference between sex and gender.
My apologies, after reviewing the difference between sex and gender, I will clarify my statement, using the following explation: The distinction between sex and gender differentiates a person's biological sex (the anatomy of an individual's reproductive system, and secondary sex characteristics) from that person's gender, which can refer to either social roles based on the sex of the person (gender role) or personal identification of one's own gender based on an internal awareness (gender identity)"
Classifications in sports should be based solely on sex, rather than gender. Period. There is too big of an advantage for those who gender identify as a female, whose sex is male. The testosteronal difference between an individual whose sex is female and an individual who gender identifies as a female, even though there sex is male, is massive and unfair. The muscle mass and body structure is a huge advantage for the gender identifying female, even after a year of hormonal therapy. (Forcing someone to take hormones to compete is an entirely different argument that is just as messy and should be another conversation for a different thread). This is completely unfair to the individual's who identify as female through gender and whose sex is also female, therefore, if we are trying to put everyone on a level playing field in sports, either transgender athletes need their own classification (if you want it to be based on gender), compete in the same classification as there sex indicates, or have one giant classification for everyone.
If this isn't rational enough for you to have a productive conversation about then I don't know what is. I am trying to be completely respectful and open to dialogue about this.
DiscoGary wrote:
ProudSnowflake wrote:
...
But his struggles are not good enough for you, you’ll just vote in more republicans to cut funding to build wheelchair ramps and prevent him from getting access to healthcare. And while he cannot make it up the stairs you’ll say he’s not contributing enough to society and want him fired.
That right there shows everyone what this is all about, and it isn't about helping anyone overcome mental health issues. It's about endlessly demonizing your political opponents.
It's always the Victims vs Villains game for fun, profit, and power.
I’m happy you finally admit you’re a villain. You’re nothjg more than an oppressive cis white male who has been keeping society down for your own profit and power.
Sorry we’re fighting back. Looks like you’re the real snowflake here lol. Are you triggered yet?
m!ndweak wrote:
nimblenw wrote:
The top ten times on Athletic.net for boys 1600 in the U.S. range from 4:03 to 4:08. The top girls' times range from 4:42 to 4:45. I'm sorry, but the top U.S. girl's time would not have even qualified for the boys' race in our league meet (4:35 was the slowest seed time). There is a significant difference in performance. I support transgender people, but I feel sorry for the girl who placed third.
pointing out FACTS proves your a bigot and intolerant!!! burn this man!!
+1
Facts are like triggering.
Really wrote:
My apologies, after reviewing the difference between sex and gender, I will clarify my statement, using the following explation: The distinction between sex and gender differentiates a person's biological sex (the anatomy of an individual's reproductive system, and secondary sex characteristics) from that person's gender, which can refer to either social roles based on the sex of the person (gender role) or personal identification of one's own gender based on an internal awareness (gender identity)"
Classifications in sports should be based solely on sex, rather than gender. Period. There is too big of an advantage for those who gender identify as a female, whose sex is male. The testosteronal difference between an individual whose sex is female and an individual who gender identifies as a female, even though there sex is male, is massive and unfair. The muscle mass and body structure is a huge advantage for the gender identifying female, even after a year of hormonal therapy. (Forcing someone to take hormones to compete is an entirely different argument that is just as messy and should be another conversation for a different thread). This is completely unfair to the individual's who identify as female through gender and whose sex is also female, therefore, if we are trying to put everyone on a level playing field in sports, either transgender athletes need their own classification (if you want it to be based on gender), compete in the same classification as there sex indicates, or have one giant classification for everyone.
If this isn't rational enough for you to have a productive conversation about then I don't know what is. I am trying to be completely respectful and open to dialogue about this.
Very well said.
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