Western States talk 2018

HHH Runner wrote:

RE: Florian N...german dude

Looks hilarious, seems pretty funny too. Not quite Walmsley standard on the track/roads but arguably better than anyone else in the race (unless I'm mistaken?)

5000m - 14:22

10000m - 29:51

HM - 66:20

you're mistaken. Lots of guys in the field have better track PRs than that. First two to come to mind are Cody Reed and Tim Freriks. Reed ran 14:10/8:56 and Freriks 14:02/29:35

I think Mario Mendoza used to do a lot of road racing but don't know his short PRs

Going for that cougar wrote:

Awaiting Tollefson, Hayden Hawks and Zach Miller to run Western, I'd imagine their time is coming in the next few years.

I'd bet Hayden runs WS in 2019 or 2020. As for Tollefson, he won't do WS until he moves out of Mammoth Lakes, which is probably a couple years down the line. Maybe 2020/2021. As for Miller, it doesn't seem like his type of race but I bet he does it with Tim, although Laney will be long gone by then.

toptom wrote:

here we go again.. wrote:

Boston clearly demonstrated why elite road runners could NEVER hang in an ultra race regardless of flat land foot speed.

Bahahahaha. Sure buddy.

Pretty sure because the conditions weren't ideal, 60% of elites dropped..point to a major ultra (Western, UTMB) when this happens? Nobody is dismissing the elite prowess of road running, but the ignorance towards elite ultra runners on this site is middle school hallwayish.

did we watch the same race? wrote:

toptom wrote:

Bahahahaha. Sure buddy.

Pretty sure because the conditions weren't ideal, 60% of elites dropped..point to a major ultra (Western, UTMB) when this happens? Nobody is dismissing the elite prowess of road running, but the ignorance towards elite ultra runners on this site is middle school hallwayish.

You know won't help the middle school type of attacks towards ultra runners? Making laughable comments such as, "elite road runners could NEVER hang in an ultra race regardless of flat land foot speed".

reed wrote:

Going for that cougar wrote:

Awaiting Tollefson, Hayden Hawks and Zach Miller to run Western, I'd imagine their time is coming in the next few years.

I'd bet Hayden runs WS in 2019 or 2020. As for Tollefson, he won't do WS until he moves out of Mammoth Lakes, which is probably a couple years down the line. Maybe 2020/2021. As for Miller, it doesn't seem like his type of race but I bet he does it with Tim, although Laney will be long gone by then.

You think Dave Laney will be out of the ultra scene in a few years? He does appear kinda burnt out, but had a strong showing at Chuckanut. I guess only time will tell. I know Zach Miller said he's more of a cold weather runner, but he'd be able to run hard af during parts of Western, I think it could cater well to him, if he's heat acclimated.

random on looker wrote:

pathfinder wrote:

Right. I'm sure you're competing against the elites on the road and the track. Go get 'em, buddy!

Does the trials marathon count? If so, thanks!

You seem very insecure. No one seriously argues that trail running is as deep as road running (though for the record road running is not deep at all which is why, I'm guessing, your sorry a*s made the trials). At the very sharp end though long distance trail runners are unique athletes that possess physical and mental traits that just aren't required on the roads. Any road runner claiming that any elite who chose to transition would automatically dominate just displays their arrogance and lack of knowledge. They sound like an 800m runner claiming that Rudisha would win Berlin if he could be bothered. The difference in skill set is that profound. I've run with 4 men who finished in the top 30 of the World Mountain Running Chmaps this weekend and my marathon PR is 5 minutes faster than any of them but I wouldn't be within 3 hours of them on a course like Spain.

silly millie wrote:

Camille runs balls to the wall, like Walmsley.

No f'in way she finishes top 5 overall, and doubt she'll even be top 5 women, if she finishes at all.

She's a hell of a runner on roads/easy trails, but her weakness is when she's faced with the slightest adversity, she'll gladly DNF.

She's a Championship runner. Puked to win the 100K world title, limped to win Comrades with a torn MCL. I've never seen someone who throttles their body through as much obvious pain as she does to come out on top. She's got something to prove for sure.

Dhaene is a utmb guy. Like kilian...cannot handle heat or running races. Euros are not good in heat. Sharman wins leadville every year....hes a bad ace. Hell go sub 16. Browning always goes top 10. You can look up Coree. Hes kinda a big deal in the ultra running community. Has a couple sub 6 50 mile times....isnt as famous because hes from the midwest and does road races mainly but if you get on irunfar him and krar just had a nice batle last weekend. Devon olson has the silver rush 50 course last year record came 4th at RRR100 too and has ran western once a few years ago. Hes fast and prepared. Probably sub 16:30. All the other guys are shorter distance guys so i cant give them much credit. A lot of those cowboys go for the CR or they drop. Zach bitter trains in phoenix now so heat wont affect him. My reasonings.

Jim is talented, but my pick for WS this year is François D'Haene.

random on looker wrote:

pathfinder wrote:

Right. I'm sure you're competing against the elites on the road and the track. Go get 'em, buddy!

Does the trials marathon count? If so, thanks!

Right. I'm sure you were "competing" against the elites.

And it's not like you can just say anything anonymously on the internet.

By the way, I ran in the Olympics. And the world championships. And the universe championships.

It's too bad Coree didn't stay up in Leadville rather than move to Illinois but I know family life took him there. He's a low 2:20s marathoner, probably would have snagged his OTQ if he kept pushing towards it. Definitely hasn't hit his ceiling yet!

I'll chime in (as someone who has done both). First off it's all just the sport of distance running...it is all hard. I did horrible at WS100 (pretty much walked the last 30 miles). I was puking my guts out. It sucked. 100-milers are for sure a different beast compared to 50-milers and 50km. Very humbling. But so is showing up at a major marathon and getting your butt kicked by guys that are beating you by over 2-miles and running sub 5:00/mile pace for 2 hours. A lot really depends on the course though (how technical the trails are and how much climbing there is...as well as weather conditions). It is easy to predict how well a 2:20-2:25 or so marathoner (male) or a 2:30-2:45 marathoner (woman) will do in a "runnable" and more flat race....pretty darn well usually (aside from nutritional/stomach mistakes, hypothermia-overheating or dehydration..which are always big factors!). The aerobic fitness and "talent" is there usually. But 2:20 guys lose to 2:35 guys all the time. How fast do you think Francois D'haene can run a marathon in? In the mountains it can be a very different story though (same goes with mud, snow and technical rocks). Basically the longer the duration of the race (which comes with climbing and distance) the more that can go exponentially wrong. The most competitive ultra is of course Comrades though (At least for the men). You get some 2:08-2:10 marathoner types. You get dopers sometimes. You get $40,000 for the win. But it is a road race, so of course that correlates better to road marathon PRs. Western States is unique in that is is a net downhill race and it is usually very hot. They don't let "elite runners" who aren't qualified on the world ultra tour or don't have a "golden ticket" into the race. It has high altitude pushes in the first 30-miles and some decent mountain-trails that may or may not be covered in snow and mud depending on the year. There are some uneven rocks. The canyons are quite hot and exposed to the sun (think over 100 degrees). There are grades on the trail over 15%. After that is is very, very smooth dirt and runnable mostly. I've been humbled by #AnySurfaceAnyDistance in this sport. It is all hard. No doubt the competitive depth is much greater on the roads and tracks. No doubt some trail-mountain-ultra races are so hilly and technical (and long) that they are almost a "different form of running." I used to joke that some races in the "SkyRunning" series should be called "SkyClimbing" because you have to use your arms and hands to climb up rocks and you have to worry about falling and dying from a fall off a cliff (in some very limited races in limited spots). Powerhiking becomes a serious thing!

"How fast do you think Francois D'haene can run a marathon in?"

2:34:42 in 2013.

(sorry about the sorry a*s comment...obviously not directed at you...)

Abdoujaparov wrote:

"How fast do you think Francois D'haene can run a marathon in?"

2:34:42 in 2013.

(sorry about the sorry a*s comment...obviously not directed at you...)

its 2018

Yeah, Francois stated when he was training like everyone else to try and run a fast marathon, he "ran about 2:35"... that's faster than Kilian, although I think Kilian could run 2:25. These are slow dudes in the world perspective, but they compete in a very small pool and are experts.

Basil Amerinight wrote:

Abdoujaparov wrote:

"How fast do you think Francois D'haene can run a marathon in?"

2:34:42 in 2013.

(sorry about the sorry a*s comment...obviously not directed at you...)

its 2018

S. Canaday wrote:

First off it's all just the sport of distance running...it is all hard.

Right. Any kind of running is hard. From 100 meters to 100 miles. If you want to be truly elite at something, it's going to take a lot of work and talent--ultra trail running included.

Any runner with running wisdom understands that what the best of the best are doing is incredible. To write off ultra runners like some do here is ignorance on display. It's a fundamental misunderstanding of how hard one is pushed at ultra distances. More importantly, it's a fundamental misunderstanding of human nature and the desire of humans to push themselves to the limit at all distances on all terrains in all events.

jkja wrote:

Yeah, Francois stated when he was training like everyone else to try and run a fast marathon, he "ran about 2:35"... that's faster than Kilian, although I think Kilian could run 2:25.

These are slow dudes in the world perspective, but they compete in a very small pool and are experts.

Basil Amerinight wrote:

its 2018

I believe Francois was only 19 when he ran the 2:34. He is a matured world beating mountain ultra runner now. Hard to believe he couldn't run 2:25 now, but it doesn't matter anyway. That's not his specialty. I don't expect Rudisha to run 2:25 either...and he's smaller than Francois!!

random on looker wrote:

here we go again.. wrote:

You do realize, even in a regular 50k there's likely more elevation climb and descend on varying terrain than any elite road runner will probably ever cover across their major races, for years, if not they're entire career combined. If all these road runners are tough enough and joke at the ultra scene, then quit with the excuses and sign up to prove your point. Boston clearly demonstrated why elite road runners could NEVER hang in an ultra race regardless of flat land foot speed.

Why would I waste my time competing against a small group of sub elites who weren't good enough to run competitively? I don't be an ultra jogger for the same reasons I don't want to be a race walker. It is like seeing who can whisper the loudest.

Ha ha not sure if I'm that much of a hater with the MUT scene but that line cracked me up

Both men's and women's races should be good this year. I'm betting Mother Nature once again will play an important part in the outcome. I'm wondering if anyone has a legitimate reason to post on this thread if they've never run a 100 miler? Or, at least say your experience is minimal.

M.A.G.A...