Down goes Semenya!!!

bkrunner wrote:

Can we talk for a second about how this rule CLEARLY targets Semenya? There is absolutely no rationale for applying this rule to those specific events. I disagree with the rule in general, but if you're going to do it, apply it to everything.

I think this is a case of kicking the can down the road. It's a difficult topic. By this judgment, they seem to want to minimize their exposure by restricting it to only those events where this has became a notable issue, i.e., the 800m / 1500m intersex dominated events. However, other events will eventually have the same outcome. What will they do? I don't think anyone really knows. It's less of a scientific question, and more of a values question. What ought to be? What do we want sport to do for us?

Whew.....saw the headline and am SO GLAD there wasn't a pic.

onerace wrote:

there should be only the category human either way. same chance and price for everyone. the best humans win. why do arbitrary categories like men or women?

Agree strongly. In western society today men and women are seen as equal in most professions and so they compete pretty much equally for most jobs etc. Track and field therefore needs to ditch the sex categories ASAP. Everyone should be encouraged to compete regardless of their sex/gender so more heats A, B, C could be organied to give more people a chance. Another way of organizing things would be to have testosterone categories regardless of sex and introduce these if the IAAF has solid evidence demonstrating that testosterone levels are closely correlated with performance in the event (may not be the case in distane running).

Their analysis of data is incorrect wrote:

Shot put is not listed as highly correlated to T-levels? 100m is not listed as highly correlated to T-levels? Are you telling me that little sh&t Seb Coe had higher natural T-levels in both 1980 and 1984 Olympics than 100m sprinters and shot putters? Wrong!

According to the declassified East German steroid & hormonal doping program, steroid-induced higher T-levels produce significant performance improvement for female throwers, sprinters & mid-d runners:

? "The positive value of anabolic steroids for the development of a top performance is undoubted. Here are a few examples… Performances could be improved with the support of these drugs within four years as follows: Shot-put (men) 2.5–4 m; Shot-put (women) 4.5–5 m; Discus throw (men) 10–12 m; Discus throw (women) 11–20 m; Hammer throw 6–10 m; Javelin throw (women) 8–15 m; 400 m (women) 4–5 sec; 800 m (women) 5–10 sec; 1500 m (women) 7–10 sec…"

Fools are cheering wrote:

Drugs to suppress Semenya is step one. Step two is to turn all male runners into geldings. Step three, no gender categories post castration. Not so funny anymore!

Men won't have to become geldings. They will force men to carry weights in a backpack. The faster you are then the more weight you must carry. Their ultimate goal is for everyone to finish in first place.

They could do that or they could just use there brains and ban her outright.

The ONLY solution wrote:

Shoebacca wrote:

Semenya should not be able to compete with women. She should have to compete in an open division against men or else find some other category for competition. It's entirely unfair to the majority of women who don't naturally have levels close to Semenya. Semenya is quite unique.

Regulating a guy's high testosterone levels to let him keep competing with women is ludicrous and ridiculous.

The only solution is to ban all men from competing in women's events.

She is a woman. She identifies as a woman. She competes internationally as a woman. Why don't you show some respect you odious crteature.

This is why ~ wrote:

Another Perspective wrote:

If her levels are natural, how did she unfairly beat anyone? I hope she sues and makes $$$$$$$$$

Because his levels are men's levels, not women's levels.

He should not be competing in women's events. He is welcome to compete in men's events!

So many illerate errors.

*She

*Her

Are you familiar with the term hermaphrodite? This applies in this case, ergo we go with self-identifcation - which is female. Ergo - she, her.

Pretty much in the same way that you want your mom's dress. You aren't gay per se, just curious. Bless.

Are you a mong? wrote:

This is why ~ wrote:

Because his levels are men's levels, not women's levels.

He should not be competing in women's events. He is welcome to compete in men's events!

So many illerate errors.

*She

*Her

Are you familiar with the term hermaphrodite? This applies in this case, ergo we go with self-identifcation - which is female. Ergo - she, her.

Pretty much in the same way that you want your mom's dress. You aren't gay per se, just curious. Bless.

Just because he/ze self-identifies as a female doesn't mean he/ze really is. Dude has a Y-chromosome - not a woman.

Are you a mong? wrote:

She identifies as a woman

She does? Then perhaps you can explain why "she" has allowed herself to be violated in this photo then - why is she allowing herself to be "felt up" on her breast?

The answer of course is obvious. She identifies as a woman when it suits.

modern world wrote:

onerace wrote:

there should be only the category human either way. same chance and price for everyone. the best humans win. why do arbitrary categories like men or women?

Agree strongly. In western society today men and women are seen as equal in most professions and so they compete pretty much equally for most jobs etc. Track and field therefore needs to ditch the sex categories ASAP. Everyone should be encouraged to compete regardless of their sex/gender so more heats A, B, C could be organied to give more people a chance. Another way of organizing things would be to have testosterone categories regardless of sex and introduce these if the IAAF has solid evidence demonstrating that testosterone levels are closely correlated with performance in the event (may not be the case in distane running).

Why stop at track? Might as well send Title iX to the trash heap as well.

IT WAS ALL PART OF MAN'S MASTER PLAN!

Black On Blonde wrote:

Are you a mong? wrote:

She identifies as a woman

She does? Then perhaps you can explain why "she" has allowed herself to be violated in this photo then - why is she allowing herself to be "felt up" on her breast?

https://www.bellanaija.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Caster-Semenya-and-Violet-Wedding__1.jpg

The answer of course is obvious. She identifies as a woman when it suits.

Good point. If you didn't know who Semenya was that photo looks like a handsome guy with a hot chick...no surprises there.

It's been established that intersex can have far far greater T levels than the elite females. The level intersex have to drop below is still probably well above what any actual female has.

Are you a mong? wrote:

The ONLY solution wrote:

Regulating a guy's high testosterone levels to let him keep competing with women is ludicrous and ridiculous.

The only solution is to ban all men from competing in women's events.

She is a woman. She identifies as a woman. She competes internationally as a woman. Why don't you show some respect you odious crteature.

Though desperate as you are, I bet you'd never ever consider hitting on "her".

I think it depends on how the testosterone is produced. From what I understand testosterone in women is produced mainly by the ovaries and the adrenal gland. If Semenya's testosterone was produced by those means only then I'm ok with her having high T levels. It would be the same situation as the advantage that a man with high T levels (produced by his testicles) would have over a man with low T levels. However if her testosterone (or most of it) is produced by testicles and her levels are in the male range and not the female range then that's not fair. From what I've read this is the case with Semenya.

So impressed they did this and all the way to 5nmol/L too. It’s not as far as they should’ve gone but it is a huge start. For those that support elite women mid distance runners this just feels great - to see an attempt to level the playing field. I am confident the elite women feel the same way.

Semenya, with her advantages, could have dominated over unheard number of years and generations of athletes, probably into her 50’s.

Alternately, there could have followed many others with Y chromosomes competing in the women’s class effectively knocking out the traditional XXs in the sport.

This rule pretty much will stop the influx of Biological men into women’s races and be a suitable band aid until someone fixes it for good with a rule preventing those with Y chromosomes competing with those that have no Ys.

Test for Test wrote:

Though desperate as you are, I bet you'd never ever consider hitting on "her".

That's your basis on what makes a woman? If we want to hit on her?

Semenya has a vagina. She is an intersex woman and identifies as such.

She is not a man.

There's nothing else to it.

Semenya and her likes have been cheating the other athletes for years. Your "analysis" and conclusions are flawed at best.

Ovaries yes, testicles no wrote:

However if her testosterone (or most of it) is produced by testicles and her levels are in the male range and not the female range then that's not fair. From what I've read this is the case with Semenya.

From what I've read, her range is somewhere in between. She doesn't have the same testicles as a man does; hers would be internal (abnormally located in the pelvis or abdomen) and they would be far more underdeveloped than a man's.

Basically she's far lower than a man's testosterone production but a lot higher than a full woman's, somewhere in the grey zone.