Van neikerk for 800m

With the right endurance training WRs.

If it was so simple, we would have seen more 200/400 guys running close to WR or at least World Class 800m. And so on for 800 -> 1500, 1500 -> 3000/5000.

Rudisha:

400m time is 45 sec

800m time is 100 sec

Van Neikerk

400m time is 43 sec

My guess is 96 sec for 800m with the right training

Anarcho-Capitalist Runner wrote:

Rudisha:

400m time is 45 sec

800m time is 100 sec

Van Neikerk

400m time is 43 sec

My guess is 96 sec for 800m with the right training

Moron.

Speed is essential to 800 success. Too much speed is detrimental.

Fiber type differences and allometrics, primary reasons.

At his best fitness, van Neikerk could run about 1:43+, so not worth his while to bother with the 800 anytime soon. By the time it is worth his trouble, the times he can run will not be motivational to sustain training.

Anarcho-Capitalist Runner wrote:

Rudisha:

400m time is 45 sec

800m time is 100 sec

Van Neikerk

400m time is 43 sec

My guess is 96 sec for 800m with the right training

The interesting question is what El G would have done to the 400m world record with a little sprint training.

Although his official 800m pb is 1:47 it's known that he ran a 1:43 in training for God's sake.

El G 1500m 3:26 VN's likely 1500m pb something like 3:45

I would say El G at his peak between 1993 and 2011 (if he hadnt retired in 2005) could have been capable of sub 43 400m with one or two seasons focused on speed.

Coevett wrote:

Anarcho-Capitalist Runner wrote:

Rudisha:

400m time is 45 sec

800m time is 100 sec

Van Neikerk

400m time is 43 sec

My guess is 96 sec for 800m with the right training

The interesting question is what El G would have done to the 400m world record with a little sprint training.

Although his official 800m pb is 1:47 it's known that he ran a 1:43 in training for God's sake.

El G 1500m 3:26 VN's likely 1500m pb something like 3:45

I would say El G at his peak between 1993 and 2011 (if he hadnt retired in 2005) could have been capable of sub 43 400m with one or two seasons focused on speed.

Almost got me

dsrunner wrote:

Speed is essential to 800 success. Too much speed is detrimental.

Fiber type differences and allometrics, primary reasons.

At his best fitness, van Neikerk could run about 1:43+, so not worth his while to bother with the 800 anytime soon. By the time it is worth his trouble, the times he can run will not be motivational to sustain training.

So much ignorance.

Remember, Usain Bolt ran 45 and i think 2:13. Let's say with good, proper 800m training he can at most run 1:53 or so.

van Niekerk sub 10/20/44, definitely a lot of speed. It's harder to shave seconds the faster you go, so he can run about 1:47 MAX. And that's assuming that he is doing optimal 800m training (60mpw)

For 800m the aerobic/anaerobic component is 60%/40%. If you are saying that van neikerk can approach 1:45 you most certainly don't know what are you talking about.

AerobicMonster wrote:

So much ignorance.

Remember, Usain Bolt ran 45 and i think 2:13. Let's say with good, proper 800m training he can at most run 1:53 or so.

van Niekerk sub 10/20/44, definitely a lot of speed. It's harder to shave seconds the faster you go, so he can run about 1:47 MAX. And that's assuming that he is doing optimal 800m training (60mpw)

For 800m the aerobic/anaerobic component is 60%/40%. If you are saying that van neikerk can approach 1:45 you most certainly don't know what are you talking about.

Just checked, Bolt ran 2:07. Still doesn't really change anything.

Anarcho-Capitalist Runner wrote:

Rudisha:

400m time is 45 sec

800m time is 100 sec

Van Neikerk

400m time is 43 sec

My guess is 96 sec for 800m with the right training

Kipchoge

100m time is 12 sec

Marathon time is 2h03m

Bolt

100m time is 9.5 sec

My guess is 1h45m in the marathon with the right training.

obviously there is a curve to how much time increases relative to distance, and the curve is steeper for sprinters. But knowing what I do about Van Neikerk, he prefers the 400 m to the 200m, and he is light for a sprinters, so he is a 400m specialist. 43 seconds, the data we need is how many steps he took. You cant just burn the first lap of the 800 and still finish fast, you have to save your turnover endurance for step 2. I know, turnover is out dated because there is also ground contact time, but I mean taking into account all three factors of speed. Stride, steps per second, and ground contact time. He obviously has the last two, what is his stride? If he can stride out 47 seconds without going much over 200 steps per minute, then even a 60 grants him a 400m time of 1:47. Which would be a great result for a 400m sprinter, but as fast as 1:44 might happen with ideal pacing. See I see more potential for a tactical win in the 800m for a sprinter. By taking dead last place and drafting, he could even split whatever time the pack was capable of throwing down, with an advantage in positioning ability the last 300m. Provided of course he was trained at the 800 and had the specific endurance.

I think it would be thrilling if more sprinters also completed the 800m, it is not just about times, but making the race exciting.

hitmonlee wrote:

You cant just burn the first lap of the 800 and still finish fast, you have to save your turnover endurance for step 2.

Nonsense! Rudisha did when set the WR (49.28/51.63).

AerobicMonster wrote:

For 800m the aerobic/anaerobic component is 60%/40%.

It's more like ~66% aerobic:

49 isnt burning for someone with 45 speed, maybe 44 speed in world record shape. The idea that you can assign a percent of aerobic va anerobic to the 800 is autistic. For a high schooler trying to run 2:10 to go to state its mostly aerobic. But for someone like David Wottle, the hat he wore said it all. He didnt have to exceed his aerobic red line until late in the race , he didnt have to sprint wildly such that his cap fell off to win. See 200 meters into the 400 meters you reach VO2 max. By taking longer strides the first lap you can reach greater distances before maxing out your breathing, so a pro has a great economy gear, and then a great championship racer also has another gear to 'accelerate' the body for the second lap, but what is actually happening is the body is slowing due to wind and impact on the legs shortening stride, usually the runner can only slow down less. Rudisha was an exception when he set the world record because of a fastest third 200, if we look at the mile in terms of 400 splits it would be congruent to look at the 200 splits of the 800.

Van N Ran like a bat out of hell in his 400 meter record, if Johnson ran like a steam locomotive almost even pacing the long sprint. This suggests a 400 m specialist, not an 800m type, but he would have a great second gear in a slow race. His economy gear, ability to stride out a fast first lap without reaching VO2 max, he would have to train for that. But drafting you see, allows the sprinter to play cat and mouse with the distance runner, or usually in the 800 it is vise versa, to the distance runners benefit.

Mnbv wrote:

Always wondered what sort of times say van neikerk or Michael Johnson could run for 800?

This often sounds ironic to people, but exceptional performance in the short sprints are a clear indication of aerobic capabilities or lack thereof. Muscles are fast-twitch, slow-twitch or somewhere in between. Athletics with muscles somewhere in between typically become 800m runners, Wade is fast-twitch, built for anaerobic events. With that said, he is so strong in the 400m that his talent and training probably would put his in the range of world class 800m capabilities, but probably nowhere in the range of his sprint capabilities.

Say what? Rudisha put the field in difficulty early on with that 49 first 400. Then he attacked on the 3rd 200 causing Amos, Kitum & Aman to start chasing early - you can see the panic on their faces as they're in the back stretch losing ground as Rudisha unleased that unmerciful attack. The others were spit out of the back and never had a chance - only Symmonds had a late charge there at the end. ☝️ Incredible raw speed plus superb *aerobic capicity* won the day for Rudisha...nothing new there.

I am not saying your recap of the London 2012 olympic 800m final is wrong, but that it has little to nothing to do with how Wayde Van Neikerk would do at 800.

the one thing it might have to do, is he might be able to start in 50. however, if he were to do the endurance training, Id think drafting and holding on for a move close to the front of the pack after the second lap, would better suit a sprinter. Is 1:47 wrong for a guess? I am not saying he couldnt run faster, but that this would be a great result for a first 800, given how much more difficult the pacing is, when you dont get your own lane and there is a change in energy systems used suring the race. If he runs 1:47 the first race he can run 1:44, that might not impress everyone but it would impress me a lot.

First, how is WvN's health? We're assuming good health for WvN and we're assuming the desire to race 800m. IMO, most sub-45 400m men whom are roughly built with 2.25 pounds per inch (6'0" 162 lbs.) can race 800m in 1:47 to 1:52 with 800m training. Which sub-45 400m men can also race sub-1:47 over 800m? We only know when the athlete gets out there and trains for 800m.