Did Boston’s prestige take another hit today?

Guhh wrote: Boston is a C-level marathon in general. Today, it just so happened to have C-level winners.

C-level winners, indeed. I assume you mean champion-level. Yuki Kawauchi is the greatest marathoner in history, measured by the number of marathons, number of wins, number of sub 2:20 wins, and average times. His case is capped off by two sub 2:10 marathons run in two weeks and winning Boston, the historic cynosure and canonical marathon. In marathons, Kawauchi > Kipchoge and Boston provided the crucible to prove it.

Ummm, yes it does happen. They are called the backups, or second string. Have you ever seen a hockey goalie, after a few questionable goals, get replaced? Or a quarterback after a few interceptions take a seat on the bench while the backup steps in? It actually happens in all sports. Sorry to ruin your day.

Cheers.

TrackCoach wrote:

Harambe wrote:

Today was about pain tolerance.

Modern marathons do everything to make it as painless as possible. Flat courses. Good weather. pacers, etc.

The most blue-collar runners who are used to GRIT and PAIN every day won.

Not elite training camps, not fancy altitude chateaus, not designer drugs, just RAW GRIT.

Boston is an A+ marathon because you can't be SOFT and take the W

GRIT and PAIN tolerance had nothing to do with it, athletes with more suitable bio-chem higher BMI faired better.

Give it a rest, you really don't understand what they went thru yesterday old man. Stay on the sidelines.

Guess you've never played those sports. If you did, you would know the coach takes you out. You don't take yourself out. If you actually read my response I said VOLUNTARILY. So sorry to ruin your day mate. Work on those comprehension skills. Cheers

Boston always has been, and still remains, an A Level marathon.

It is just that - in face of the terrible weather conditions yesterday - there were too many elites giving DNF-Level performances.

I don't feel worthy to critisize them, however, as I didn't complete Boston yesterday either.

Bro you are the definition of a curmudgeon. That weather isn’t going to become the norm, but it’s normal for it to happen every now and then. That was an enthralling race to watch; “hero” is subjective...Yuki is definitely a running hero of mine now if he wasn’t already.

Nobody outside the US really cares much about Boston. It's only hyped because loads of American runners are always on about their attempts to run a BQ.

Nope wrote:

Nobody outside the US really cares much about Boston. It's only hyped because loads of American runners are always on about their attempts to run a BQ.

Well, I 'm from the UK, and I'm very interested in the Boston marathon. I watched the whole of Monday's race and loved every minute of it.

And, if this year's weather puts off future African involvement, so what. I'll still watch it.

And, here 's something to think about, because of the dreadful weather conditions this year, and the toll it took on elite runners, the race is going to be one of the most memorable staging of the event.

keepgoing wrote:

Harambe wrote:

Today was about pain tolerance.

Modern marathons do everything to make it as painless as possible. Flat courses. Good weather. pacers, etc.

The most blue-collar runners who are used to GRIT and PAIN every day won.

Not elite training camps, not fancy altitude chateaus, not designer drugs, just RAW GRIT.

Boston is an A+ marathon because you can't be SOFT and take the W

Agree completely.

What is interesting is that most of the Africans train in a very GRIT way. Dirt, altitude, lots of hills, but usually lots of heat. But that doesn't cut it in cold and rain.

Today reminded me a little bit of when Wisco beat UTEP at NCAAs a few decades ago. The weather crushed the UTEP Kenyans an the Midwest guys had no trouble with it.

+1 and we see the effects of this style of training on the track when it matters - smack in the middle of our summers when Worlds and the Olympics are being held, we're here in North America complaining about hot/humid weather meanwhile these guys are using tracksuits to warm-up in the same conditions.

SorryToSay wrote:

I say yes. Well done to Desi and Yuki, of course. Great athletes. But they have no business winning a major marathon. Both men’s and women’s top-10s were filled with C-level athletes. Most of the top Africans and even some Americans dropped out. Next year, do you think top athletes are going to be lining up to come to Boston? I do not. It’s already a low-preference choice for Africans, and it potentially became even more so today.

That type of attitude denigrates their performance. They won, fair and square in some of the most extreme conditions and should be celebrated. African, American, Asian, European it doesn't matter. The training, the pavement, the weather and any number of other factors come into play in any road race, and determines who will prevail. These two prevailed today, the next time they may not. Or they may. I'm sure the wins will provide added motivation and incentive. Personally, I'm happy for them both.

Those that said the opposite -- that Boston's prestige was only raised by the '18 edition -- have it right, I believe. A nasty NorEaster that destroyed the elite talent and created a storybook narrative can only, looking ahead, make the race more interesting and intriguing. And the city still came out in droves to support -- incredible!

OlderRunner62 wrote:

Boston always has been, and still remains, an A Level marathon.

It is just that - in face of the terrible weather conditions yesterday - there were too many elites giving DNF-Level performances.

I don't feel worthy to critisize them, however, as I didn't complete Boston yesterday either.

Big thumbs down to the BAA. Put the race off one day and prime conditions . Instead run it in horrendous conditions , put a couple thousand runners in medical distress and then trot out the old sop this is what “Marathoning is all about - only the strong survive “ they were just lucky no one died .

do you even watch running? wrote:

portsea57 wrote:

Two of the UK's greatest marathon runners have lost big races - Commonwealth Games and Europen Chsmps because of the heat...and now it has happened to Callum.

How many top Arfricans have lost big races because of the heat?

Dumb question, easy answer.

Paul Tergat, WR holder at the time, got absolutely trashed in Athens 2004, running 10th place or so on an unchallenging course but in high heat.

Many others.

BU!BUT! BUT!

First, how do you know if he just didn't have a good day. Over trained. Under trained.

And, was he at any point showing signs - obvious signs ( staggering all over the place) of heat exhaustion?

Over the years, the Kenyans have always run well in the heat.

I recall when the World Cross Country Champs were held in Kenya and it was the Ethiopians that suffered in the heat...not the Kenyans.

The equator runs through Kenya...yes, I know all the Kenyan runners train in the high country where it is cooler...relatively cooler, that is.

RealTrackCoach wrote:

TrackCoach wrote:

GRIT and PAIN tolerance had nothing to do with it, athletes with more suitable bio-chem higher BMI faired better.

Give it a rest, you really don't understand what they went thru yesterday old man. Stay on the sidelines.

TrackCoach is right. Normally, heat dissipation is a key trait of marathon winners, i.e. low bodyfat and long thin limbs. On Monday it was the opposite because those runners couldn't even keep warm enough which is rare in a marathon race.

GlobalView1 wrote:

Those that said the opposite -- that Boston's prestige was only raised by the '18 edition -- have it right, I believe. A nasty NorEaster that destroyed the elite talent and created a storybook narrative can only, looking ahead, make the race more interesting and intriguing. And the city still came out in droves to support -- incredible!

This is my take on it. I've gotten more Boston comments this year from friends, family, and coworkers than any other year. It was a spectacle.

AndyDufresne2 wrote:

GlobalView1 wrote:

Those that said the opposite -- that Boston's prestige was only raised by the '18 edition -- have it right, I believe. A nasty NorEaster that destroyed the elite talent and created a storybook narrative can only, looking ahead, make the race more interesting and intriguing. And the city still came out in droves to support -- incredible!

This is my take on it. I've gotten more Boston comments this year from friends, family, and coworkers than any other year. It was a spectacle.

I told my story enough times today to have it refined down to a similar viewpoint. I only add that the ideal is for a runner to have one or two tries at perfect conditions, just so they know what they could have done. And if it's not going to be close to ideal, let's have a real test like Monday's - there's just no substitute like finding yourself in the midsts of a true test like the one Boston dished out for us this year.

Another words, you can run it for time, or you can run it to prove to yourself what you can endure. Monday's was the latter, and it was a good one.

But Boston for the last few years has had few of the ideal conditions, and those were my only three BMs, btw.

Checkyourself wrote:

Guess you've never played those sports. If you did, you would know the coach takes you out. You don't take yourself out. If you actually read my response I said VOLUNTARILY. So sorry to ruin your day mate. Work on those comprehension skills. Cheers

Played them all, actually. Pretty sure it is a combination. Sometimes the coach has seen enough and and makes the move, sometimes the athlete suggests it. As a goalie, our coach often asked between periods how I felt. On occasion, I just skated to the bench saying I’ve had enough (42 shots on goal in a period and a half). More often than not, it was a mutual decision, the coach of course having final say. Even in running, coaches will say, “if it acts up... if you aren’t feeling it... save it for another day”. Effectively making the decision and then the athlete deciding when. Sorry, you stand corrected, again. And my comprehension is just fine, it’s the booze that sometimes misunderstands.

Good night.

...and let’s not forget your initial absurdity, that a 5 hour marathonis somehow more impressive than a professional DNF. By definition, a professional makes their livelihood from the sport, so, if they decide that dropping out of a race due to torrential rains is in the best interest of their career, then, yes, they should voluntarily withdraw without shame.

If you are proud of your 5 hour walk, I’m happy for you. Personally, I would rather stand in the rain and volunteer for 5 hours.

Cheers, for the last time, Homey.

1. Never said it was more impressive, just said it places higher

2.If they don't finish the race they shouldn't get paid ANYTHING, including for appearing

3.Why did you assume I ran or "walked" 5 hours? You initially brought up 5 hours not me.

4.Thanks for admitting it's ultimately the runners decision to drop out. Validates my point.

5. Congrats on that .895 save %, you must be proud