Who pays for these high school kids to fly all over the country to these meets?

I was responding to precious Roy's comment about parents who spend tons of money in the hopes of a college scholarship. I know too many parents who have spent thousands of dollars for this reason. Certainly our sport has few scholarships whether full or partial.

nikon wrote:

Cruz Culpepper ran at Texas Relays one weekend and Arcadia the next. His parents are big time runners and have the money so are they paying him to fly to these meets or does the high school pay?

Just wondering how these programs do this.

Could get expensive now that high schools are travelling all over.

Definitely Soros.

Also, some parents like to go to activities with their kids that their kids want to do. My wife and I did a 6+hr drive plus one or two night hotel stay for 6 years in a row to go to the Footlocker Regional because our kids wanted to run it. There was a very low probability that either kid would qualify (the older kid was 10th in the state XC meet his senior year), but it was a fun trip every year. We have never regretted a minute or a dollar spent on those trips.

Very well stated. Thank you for enlightening some idiot parents.

Amusing. Our masters club analyzed the top medal winning clubs which all happen to all be in the South Western USA: HSI, WCE, OTC, and Altis. Our conclusion is parents and spouses pay the travel bills of Olympic and IAAF Worlds medalists.

Here's a good quote on it from AlSal in 2013 when he had Mary Cain in high school:

RW: Mary's father is a physician, with an income that allows his daughter to train independently with you and to travel around the world to race. Talk about that.

AS: There's no question that her family's financial support is important. Dr. and Mrs. Cain have to cover all of Mary's training and travel expenses, including paying me the market rate for my coaching services. The NCAA rules are ironclad. Say, for instance, that we were to travel to a meet, and I were to pay for Mary's hotel room, and then get reimbursed by her father. It sounds innocent–it is innocent–but according to the NCAA, that would be a violation. Her parents have to pay for the hotel and all other expenses, direct and up front. Luckily, the Cain family is in a position to handle that outlay. Dr. Cain has set up an escrow account from which I draw to pay Mary's expenses pertaining to the sport. Galen's parents, by contrast, had to make considerable sacrifices for him to retain his amateur status while I worked with him through high school and college.

https://www.runnersworld.com/elite-runners/theres-something-about-mary

This is the smartest thing Rojo has ever said. A lot of parents are scammed into believing that they need to spend huge money on trips to big meets for their kids to have any chance at getting a scholarship. This is common in basketball, hockey, and football where schools/clubs ask tens of thousands of dollars from parents for the kid to train and compete at big meets across the USA; all in the belief it will improve scholarship opportunities. Billions are spent each year by parents wanting to buy their kids into college level sport.

What's more impressive? Paying $2000+ so your kid in grade 11 can barely break 2min for 800m at Arcadia or him staying home to run a 2:03 at a local county meet with no depth? I was the latter and got a lot more attention from small to medium size colleges than my team mates who did the former. Unfortunately, neither situation is going to get a kid a Div 1 full ride but parents don't know that and often spend the money for the trip.

Parent434 wrote:

My kids are a few years from high School and haven't started running yet, but if my kids were capable of 4:11 type times, I would definitely pay to get them to Arcadia. I wouldn't do it for the college scholarship potential, I would send them there for the experience. Take on the best in your sport and learn what it takes to be the best. Arcadia looks like an awesome experience and not something you can get at a dual meet. I wouldn't judge people for wanting their kids to have these experiences. I have the resources and if my kids are good enough, I'll get them there. My perogative.

Agree.

You have to be very careful. It may be a good experience at the time but if it somehow stunts the growth of the athlete at the financial expense of the parents, it is a lose-lose. Check the college stats of these runners going to Arcadia and other nations and you will see that many end up disappearing. We had 2 runners from the same high school running these national meets a few years ago and neither have hit their high school times after a few years in college. The guy ran 4:04 and girl 4:42 for full mile. It seems for many athletes that it is too much too soon.

Seriously, one of the big problems we have is crappy college coaches that just happen to good be recruiters. There are some great college coaches out there, but many of the top schools have awesome recruiters who don't know squat about taking and developing a kid. Most of the time they aren't used up in high school, they get to the next level and their college coach is worse that their HS Coach so they don't improve. Kind of common sense. College coaches don't want you to know this.

100-200-400 I'll kick your butt! wrote:

Amusing. Our masters club analyzed the top medal winning clubs which all happen to all be in the South Western USA: HSI, WCE, OTC, and Altis. Our conclusion is parents and spouses pay the travel bills of Olympic and IAAF Worlds medalists.

Go Fund Me is pretty popular. One couple used it to raise funds for travel to watch their daughter who was on the US team in Beijing. Which was great, except they would then post Facebook pictures of the family enjoying an expensive brunch or fancy dinner while they were begging for money. Not smart.

Sit and kick wrote:

Are there really that many track full-ride scholarships around? Not talking about those partial things everyone gets with some kInd of 20% discount on the inflated original price if they can meet the standard(s)

If the parents truly cared about a college scholarship they'd be in a real sport

Our small school in the past 5 years has had only three kids awarded sports scholarships. All three were track athletes. None were from a "real sport"

otter wrote:

Sit and kick wrote:

Are there really that many track full-ride scholarships around? Not talking about those partial things everyone gets with some kInd of 20% discount on the inflated original price if they can meet the standard(s)

If the parents truly cared about a college scholarship they'd be in a real sport

Our small school in the past 5 years has had only three kids awarded sports scholarships. All three were track athletes. None were from a "real sport"

What's your point? No one cares.

Sit and kick wrote:

Are there really that many track full-ride scholarships around? Not talking about those partial things everyone gets with some kInd of 20% discount on the inflated original price if they can meet the standard(s)

If the parents truly cared about a college scholarship they'd be in a real sport

There are quite a few but I don't think you have to go these big meets to get them.

When I coached I was often criticized for taking my top runners to the "big" meets.

I had quite a few get scholarships- only a couple full rides but still 75% is a good scholarship.

If you the times you'll get recognized.

The scholarship topic made its way into this thread. So here we go again. Boys are rarely getting scholarships unless at a school that nobody ever heard of. If Parents are paying big bucks to go to these meets with the thought that it will earn little Jonny a scholarship, not a good idea. The rumor is that Hasty is walking on at Oregon his first year. He is the top distance recruit in the country. We have seen real life examples on this site of Parents with boys running 4:10 who walk on at average distance programs. Yes, there are boys getting partial scholarships, but many times that just means books. They sit there smiling with their pen and paper on the evening news and people assume they are like the football and basketball kids on both sides of them but they are not.

nikon wrote:

Cruz Culpepper ran at Texas Relays one weekend and Arcadia the next. His parents are big time runners and have the money so are they paying him to fly to these meets or does the high school pay?

Just wondering how these programs do this.

Could get expensive now that high schools are travelling all over.

Our high school has a budget for travel and the coaches decide how to use that budget. Parents aren’t allowed to pay for entries or team travel to meets. What we do pay for is our own travel expenses. 2 round trip plane tickets, 2 nights in a hotel, and a rental car. Wouldn’t trade those costs to see my kid compete against the best in that setting for any scholarship.

Precious Roy wrote:

When there is scholarship money on the line, parents really cannot afford to NOT send their kids to these events. A free ride is worth about $200k+ these days.

Ya but how many (especially male) participants in these meets will get a full ride. Precious few I think.

answer wrote:

Desperate parents

Desperate society that believes you have to give every opportunity to your kids, or they may fail.

Sort of like big money university choices as well.

This is unfortunately very true. In the club driven sports (basketball, volleyball, soccer) it's amazing to see the money spent by parents on their children in hopes of that huge scholarship. Of course, they're also one sport athletes who never do any other sports. Its sad when all that sacrifice and thousands of dollars ends up with a community college scholarship, which is so small. What parents and athletes don't understand is that college coaches come to these tournaments/events, with a few recruits already in mind, spend their time only at their matches/games, ignore the rest of the venue, and if your kid, who is not being actively scouted, has a huge game against the scouted recruit, they MIGHT gain some interest, but often times not. In other words, the majority of parents are subsidizing the recruiting of the few real elites.

Our school travels out of state each fall, usually to California for Woodbridge. The kids fundraise for the event, as we get no assistance from the school. Most of our runners will never win a race their, and as a team, even in our most competitive years, we aren't in the elite races. So why go? Because it's a fun experience, and it casts vision for just how amazing the sport is. The opportunity to go to a huge meet, see thousands of spectators, be at a meet with national coverage. Watch elite boys and girls run times that blow the mind? To say you ran the same course on the same day. I've watched kids come back from that meet, whether having done well, or gotten embarrassed by how good the competition was, with a greater hunger for success in the sport. When they're at Arcadia and they see 16 boys break 9 in the 3200, where they usually get excited if 16 boys break 10 in the 3200 back home.

When I was in high school, our parents took us out to run Footlocker (Michigan to Wisconsin trek). I ran the seeded race. When I got to the top of the first hill, I looked back in less than a dozen were behind me. But for my teammates and I, it was a great experience. We had fun, we met other runners from other schools. We knew we weren't going to earn a scholarship off that race, but to compete against the best on one day, it was worth it.