800m race and workouts

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Can I please have some replies and predictions on my fitness?

Original poster wrote:

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Can I please have some replies and predictions on my fitness?

No thanks.

It's a good workout, but a very bad workout for the sake of prediction. To predict your fitness, you need a workout with short rest intervals.

You're in shape and had a great workout. You're not getting replies because there's not much more to say.

new here?

need full range of PR's, mileage and age to get an accurate prediction and where in the season you are leading up to the work

predicting what shape you are in is very hard to do off of just one workout

So, you should clarify. I assume that 2:00.40 was indoor given the size of the track? You are now going into outdoor season. This is not a bad workout, but I'm really hoping for you that you are not doing this kind of workout all the time? It more or less resembles a 200 / 400 meter runner workout which is great but not all the time.

Aerobic development is needed for the 800.

So, short answer on a track with the adrenaline of a meet I'm not sure.

As a strategy you might want to try in your first meet if the conditions are ok to go out in 59-61 and see how the second half goes. If you match that split or negative split then you can work it down in the next meet by a second or two depending. You'll find a feel for it on the outdoor track. Don't overcommit the first time out, that's all. Get position in the first 50 meters and float to 200 in what might be 28ish.

Yes the 2:00.4 was indoor on a flat track and I’m a junior in high school and I run 800-3200, but only really started focusing on the 800 his winter. A week before the 2:00.4 I ran a 1600m PR of 4:26 and that same day I ran a 9:50 3200 about 2 hours later. I run about 30-40 mpw but I’ve done 50 preparing for xc. My coaches think that more than 40 mpw is way too much even when I’m training for the 16-32 which is really annoying because I know that more mileage would benefit me. And to the other poster I am most definitely not a 2-4 guy. I’m also running in the 4x4 this week but I have never ran an open 400 before so any help or prediction for that would be helpful. Thank you very much.

Any predictions with that more detailed history?

Original poster wrote:

Any predictions with that more detailed history?

Never said you were a 2/4 guy. I'm saying you are training like one. I'm sorry now for trying to help you.

Justin Rinaldi is probably the 800m guru on here so he would be best to ask as he coaches 1:44-46 guys or maybe Renato. That looks like quality training but the gaps are large.

4-3-2 x2 @ 800m pace, is not a 200/400 workout. It’s an excellent 800m woekout.

Idiot.

Total idiot has no idea what sprinters do ^ wrote:

4-3-2 x2 @ 800m pace, is not a 200/400 workout. It’s an excellent 800m woekout.

Idiot.

With 4+ minutes rest it's a long sprinting workout. As I said in my first post it's a good workout. But not if he does it all the time.

Keep doing your 8min rest or 15 min rest and my athletes will fly by you at 600 meters into the race every time. That's ok with me.

Let me explain further.

You run a 400 and then take an 8 minute break. The only reason why you would do that is to have phosphocreatine levels rebound. You're not going to clear lactate build up in that amount of time.

Then you run a 300 at sub 1:50 pace. You're not a sub 1:50 runner so this is not 800 meter pace right?

Then a 4 minute break. Phosphocreatine rebounds to around 85%-90%. Great, you can drain that system down again. Then we run a 26.4 second 200. Not 800 pace for this guy, right? Can we agree on that?

Then there is a 15 minute break. Again, not long enough to drain the acidity in the blood. I'm saying this b/c obviously you do not know that. Then we go back to running a 400.

So, we have worked on a little over speed which is good. We have allowed phosphocreatine levels to rebound and drained the again. A good long sprinters 400 workout. You may disagree, but would be wrong. A decent workout but if done all the time you will be roadkill after 60 seconds

There is little to no aerobic development here. So no need for the body to adapt by expanding capillary beds or mitochondrial density. Like it or not when you or your athlete reaches 1 minute into the race you're 90% aerobic in terms of your energy needs. Again, you're welcome to disagree, but you would be wrong. At that point in time no amount of over speed training can ever save you. It's physiologically impossible.

Learn what you are using in the race and primarily train those systems.

Again, it's a good workout but anaerobic development is not the key to winning the 800. You need a mix but if you are going to neglect one over the other DO NOT neglect your aerobic system.

This would be a far better 800 workout if you used a 1 to 1 rest ratio. You would actually go into the next rep with an elevated heart rate. You would still be able to go slightly faster than goal pace. Separate speed development for a different workout. Why do think guys like Rudisha do repeat 100 meter sprints. Even real speed of 30-50 meters is beneficial for running economy and neuromuscular development.

Think about what you are doing.

So much ignorance on these boards.

Did you not read my brief history of running? My coaches don’t let me run more than 30-40 mpw and I WANT TO RUN MORE. We don’t do this type of workout too often but my coach decides everything. I’m in high school and I have to listen to him. My aerobic base is fairly strong: I ran a 4:26 1600m and then about 2 hours later ran a 9:50 3200m so I’m not just a speed guy. Can you please now give me a prediction for my race on Saturday? I appreciate your input and agree with it, but there is not much I can do to change my training. Thank you Otter can I please have a prediction if you could give one even if it’s quite a large range. I mean I ran 200.4 a month ago on a flat indoor 200m track and I think I’m a little fitter so what do you think?

otter:

How do you happen to know OP's rate of lactate clearance?

I ran 1:47 off of 25 mpw and 3:42 1500. It’s not about the miles but how you run them and the other cross/supplemental training

SlowFatMaster wrote:

otter:

How do you happen to know OP's rate of lactate clearance?

You basically half the amount of lactate until you get back to normal every 20-25 minutes. Run a 400 all out or close to it and you're 15-20mmol at least. You can do the rest of the math.

The OP would have to be God to clear lactate quicker than the entire human race.

I don't know. But I gave you some strategies in my first post about how to take it out.

Let me correct you.

I do agree the rest is too long, for 95-105% of 800m pace reps 5-6x rest ratio is ideal.

Phosphocreatine "rebounds" after about 2:00.

The PC-ATP system only supplies energy for about 10 seconds of maximal excercise... so not really sure why you are obsessing about that.

Reps of 400m, 300 fast reps use primarily glycolysis. So even with too long of rest you are still training that system.

The first 300m of a 2:00 800m would be run in about 44. I'm sure you understand positive splitting...? Maybe you don't...

800m pace should NEVER be a 1:1 rest ratio. This is the most ignorant thing.

Vo2 max training is 1:1, 1500m pace is around 3:1 and 800m pace is 5-7:1 rest ratios.

Think about what you are doing.

So much ignorance from otter.

Lameo very otter...

Otter we are waiting on your response.....