Gregory K. Palm wrote:
First man to break 13:00 is no mean feat.
First to break 7:30 and (almost) first to break 3:30 also no mean feat.
Gregory K. Palm wrote:
First man to break 13:00 is no mean feat.
First to break 7:30 and (almost) first to break 3:30 also no mean feat.
and more... wrote:
Gregory K. Palm wrote:
First man to break 13:00 is no mean feat.
First to break 7:30 and (almost) first to break 3:30 also no mean feat.
Always downplaying Aouita's achievements as 2nd to Coe and Ovett.
In a WR race over 1500m, Aouita will probably run the kick out of Coe.
Gregory K. Palm wrote:
and more... wrote:
First to break 7:30 and (almost) first to break 3:30 also no mean feat.
Always downplaying Aouita's achievements as 2nd to Coe and Ovett.
In a WR race over 1500m, Aouita will probably run the kick out of Coe.
The problem is that in an Olympic final, Aouita wouldn't have had a doped up teammate to pace for him like El G did. It would have been a real race and Coe would have outkicked Aouita with ease.
No, people like myself and Deano explain to you why Coe's blood disorder did not imply he was doping.
There's no proof that Aouita doped except a shady career progression, being hounded out of a country after being accused by multiple athletes of pressurizing them to take peds (as the 'only way to win'), having a (Belgian!) doctor who was known as 'doctor syringe' and supplied dozens of athletes with peds, and being the first great runner from a country subsequently tainted with probably the worst doping record in middle-distance history. That's a lot of circumstantial evidence.
And yes, Aouita has to be the greatest coach in history to turn his career around like that in his early twenties. He did it himself (with the aid of doctors). It's utterly bizarre why he hasn't been able to transfer those training methods to other athletes (excluding several Moroccans during the EPO free for all era). If you believe that Aouita was clean, then there's no doubt you have to admit he hit on the winning formula, and yet then why didn't it even help any of his Australian or UAE athletes to even improve marginally?
And no, I'm not lying about times. You and Said88 really have got a cheek to constantly accuse me of that when it's there for everybody to see. He was a regular 1:50/3:40/14:00 runner for several years and almost overnight he became able to churn out 1:45/3:30/13:00 times. That's remarkable. And if you want to go by his pbs, it's even more strange, because he actually went backwards between 1980 and 82.
3:29.77 vs 3:29.46
Unlikely ignoring that Coe ran 3:29 when past his best.
If .31 was the true difference between them he would just draft of Aouita and use his superior speed to out- kick him
Even in a race with pacemakers Aouita would be left at the front with 1 lap to go
Coe and Ovett signed up to do a 3 race series against each other in 82. One was was even a 3,000 from memory
Ovett was out injured and Coe was out with illness so it never happened.
Part of the reason they never raced was money. Ovett said nobody would put up decent money for the match - when that happened in the 3 race series they signed up. Coe also said once fine put Ovett in my race but you can forget about a WR as I'm not having him leach off. TV was clamoring for more records and that was where the money was.
They should have raced each other more but that would have destroyed the mystique - that's what made the championships so special
Another lie. But convince a liar about the fact he is a liar.
You are lying with practically every number based post you are doing.
You stay with your numbers here (normal times for one season) and compare them with some best marks in another season? I can't think of something more stupid. (13:48 in early 1979 and so on...). "Almost overnight"? Just another lie. At some point in this endless stupidity you went as far as comparing averages (for sure happily adding three seconds to them) with best marks. Coevett at it's best.
Look just at this thread, where you keep quiet like a dead fish. Just a reminder for Mr. Coevett:
And directly from Mr Coevett himself:
My replay:
That's the point of view from the liar himself and and one of his many handles (as I believe, or there just is another mad one like him). Just a reflection of what he (they?) think has happened or what they wish. Quotes taken directly right of their as...
And now the correct version.
The race was in August, in the absolute height of the season. It was the purest time trial from Ovett someone can think of. Ovett directly after the start went behind two pacemakers. The three went well ahead of the field very soon, a gap of something like at least 20 meters opened. The 2nd pacemaker took Ovett until 1100m and Ovett reached 1200m in 2:50.44. Then he dramatically slowed down (43.34 for the final 300m). Bile was running at the end of a too big field and passed all of them (running very wide) in the last 500m and closed the gap to Ovett on the homestretch, obviously having no clue about his true potential. The race was run on Ovett's favoured track in Koblenz, where he has set his best 1500m and Mile times (apart from Rieti with the obviously extremely good conditions).
It was Ovett's only sub 3:34 after his last WR at the age of 27. The race was run 1 week after his great 5000m Gold at the Commonwealth games.
And now, compare the reality with the 100% made up "version" of Coevett. We should take any, really any, "fact" which Coevett presents us with the biggest portion of scepticism possible. We are talking here about just number based facts which are easy to verify (but Coevett even doesn't accept pure facts like that if they don't fit his agenda).
What about all the other points which he regularly brings to this forum as "facts" and which are just highly speculative and just nobody has an clear knowledge about the reality.
Lie after lie after lie from you, Coevett.
You already have DECIDED that your hero Ovett doesn't do time trials with pacemakers and that your behated Aouita did this in any race. Both is completely wrong - but why care about facts? They don't fit to my (Coevett) agenda - so: change them. Again and again. Liar.
It's an endless string of lies. You are definitely not interested in facts but just your points you WANT to proof - or better: to just convince some letsrunners. To achieve this you are not ashamed to post all your irrational stuff.
I only read some of your mostly nonsensical posts, but even in them I can spot a lie regularly. Just insane.
I just want to add Coevett's two main tactics when someone pointed on his lies:
1. Just change the subject completely. (you doping apologist...)
2. Keep completely quit (as he has done on this occasion), wait a while, and spot the same nonsense again.
Let's wait and see which one he uses here.
What he will not do: just face the point in question, answer to this point and agree when it's just obvious (like here or on many other occasions) to be wrong.
ukathleticscoach wrote:
Double Olympic 1500m Champion vs an athlete who never won a global title at the event.
I remember some posts from years ago which showed equally deep thinking from the coach. Really would like to know where such a knowledgeable giant is coaching.
ukathleticscoach wrote:
Coe and Ovett signed up to do a 3 race series against each other in 82. One was was even a 3,000 from memory
Ovett was out injured and Coe was out with illness so it never happened.
Part of the reason they never raced was money. Ovett said nobody would put up decent money for the match - when that happened in the 3 race series they signed up. Coe also said once fine put Ovett in my race but you can forget about a WR as I'm not having him leach off. TV was clamoring for more records and that was where the money was.
They should have raced each other more but that would have destroyed the mystique - that's what made the championships so special
Yes, looking back nobody could have foreseen that both Coe and Ovett would both be effectively have their prime careers ended by the summer of 82. They were holding out for more money and they were right to do so because they got a good deal for that series of races in 82 as you said. The world records in 82 added to their value and fame and the whole mystique of their rivalry which was building up to 82. Nobody was even on the horizon as a challenger (except Steve Cram) and it looked likely they would dominate for at least a couple more years.
If they had raced two or three times in 81, we might have been denied the world records. Coe might not ever have ran 1:41. Remember that Coe was trying to break world records in every event from 800m to the Mile, so that 800m in Florence was his only opportunity to really go for the WR in that event in the whole of 81.
I know Coe and Ovett weren't big fans of the Commonwealth games early in their careers, but I imagine that with them being held in Brisbane in 82 (and at the end of the European season) both would have competed if they had been healthy. So assuming both entered the 800 and 1500 in the Euros and Commonwealths and reached the finals, they would have raced each other at least seven times in 82 and nobody would be talking about why they didn't race more often.
Coevett wrote:
If they had raced two or three times in 81, we might have been denied the world records. Coe might not ever have ran 1:41. Remember that Coe was trying to break world records in every event from 800m to the Mile, so that 800m in Florence was his only opportunity to really go for the WR in that event in the whole of 81.
Actually, his run in Florence on June 10th (very early season) wasn't a world record attempt; his father never travelled with him; but rather a planned 1:43 something run to see how the training was going and what sort of form he was in. After the great pace on the first lap, he decided to try and keep going. Apparently, according to Coe himself, Konchellah wasn't an allocated rabbit, but rather went off like he did because he was predominantly a 400m runner at that point in his career! But you are right in suggesting that there were only a few opportunities in any season (at that point) for an orchestrated attempt at a WR. You have to remember that even Coe was obliged to run a certain number of races in the UK in any season, in order to get permission to run in the more auspicious meets in Europe. So much was controlled by Andy Norman. In fact, Coe never got permission from the BAAB to run in the Oslo 79 meet (where he broke his first WR), and had been threatened with disciplinary action before the race, which later disappeared after he broke the WR! The only athlete who seemed to have exemption from that was Ovett, whose agent was Mr Norman.
The original intention for Coe was to have a crack at his 1:42.33 WR in the Oslo meet about 1 month later. When he got to that point of the season, having 3 or 4 nights earlier front run the 3:31 in Stockholm off suicidal pace, he decided that there was little chance of him improving on the Florence WR, so, he asked to move to the Dream Mile, and a race against Ovett. But Steve, according to Norman, didn't want to race Coe at that point, and Coe was pacified by the reassurance that they would meet in the Golden Mile in Brussels at the end of August. They were both down to run in Brussels from the beginning of the 81 season, and there was a buzz in the press throughout the summer about a clash between the two of them. Unfortunately, less than a week before Brussels, Ovett withdrew and instead chose to run a low key 800m in Norway, the day after Brussels.
Having been denied a clash against Ovett in the mile, Coe was persuaded to have a crack at his own 1000m WR by the Oslo meet promoter. Coe reluctantly went along with it, but had already told the press there was unlikely to be another WR due to the energy sapping front run in Stockholm a few nights earlier. The result was the 2:12.18 WR which lasted 18 years.
A 1500m race between a peak Coe and Aouita would be close in any sort of race or pace. Both were capable of quite a bit faster than their respective pbs, in my opinion.
said88 wrote:
I just want to add Coevett's two main tactics when someone pointed on his lies:
1. Just change the subject completely. (you doping apologist...)
2. Keep completely quiet (as he has done on this occasion), wait a while, and spot the same nonsense again.
Let's wait and see which one he uses here.
What he will not do: just face the point in question, answer to this point and agree when it's just obvious (like here or on many other occasions) to be wrong.
Nr.2 - not surprising.
Keeps quiet as a dead fish. The guy who normally spams the board regularly in the threads he appears.
He has written completely bullshit, completely opposite of what really has happened. After being informed about this he does what? He just turns himself dead. Now we can just wait until he writes the same nonsense again.
For sure it's not realistically to expect an reaction like: "Yes, I have (as on so many other occasions) lied." But still...
I think he uses tactic one more when he might even think his acting was OK. Maybe he really thinks that comparing an (for sure completely wrong) average of one year with some best mark in another is an helpful contribution for an discussion. Maybe he even thinks that changing the performances of his own heroes always in their favour and putting the ones of some Africans down is helpful? I don't know.
coulda woulda shoulda - didn't
Just letting you stew a little Said.
Also - I'm not a Turkish dole scrounger in Germany. Earning a living comes before trying vainly to convince you and 3 or 4 other weirdo hardcore doping apologists that Aouita had a dodgy progression, when it's obvious to the other 99% of the board.
As usual, not a single word to the points in question.
The racist douche strikes again.
Coevett wrote:
Also - I'm not a Turkish dole scrounger in Germany.
Neither is said88.
And believe me, not even 10% of the board is on your side.
Also - you lied about me.
Also - you lied about Aouita's times.
Also - you lied about Ferguson and Coach Anzrah.
Also - you lied about some of your heroes' performances.
Also - you lied about other posters.
Also - you lied about only posting under your registered handle.
WTF are you doing on this website, man?
No one gives a f**k about "ohhh I was the first to post whatever on an English speaking website!" Any info you posted on here is available on the internet.
"Shady career progression" according to you. It is possible for runners to improve immensely within a year period without doping (which you have no evidence). Every runner has to progressively improve marginally every year before they reach their peak? If they don't, then it must be doping? Wow!
Who has Coe coached to any success by the way? If we're going but subjective opinion, maybe Coe know he can coach runners to dope like himself. That is how inane your arguments against Aouita are read.
You stated Coe was chasing WRs, how come when Aouita wanted a WR race in Zurich 1984 did Coe say no to race? Nice contradiction there. Coe was scared because Aouita was in good form.
said88 wrote:
2. Keep completely quit (as he has done on this occasion), wait a while, and spot the same nonsense again.
Yup.
ukathleticscoach wrote:
3:29.77 vs 3:29.46
Unlikely ignoring that Coe ran 3:29 when past his best.
If .31 was the true difference between them he would just draft of Aouita and use his superior speed to out- kick him
Even in a race with pacemakers Aouita would be left at the front with 1 lap to go
Not sure about that. I just watched Aouita winning the 800m bronze medal in Seoul behind Cruz and Ereng neither of whom I think Coe could have beaten in a Olympic championship race over 800m. To top it off Aouita seemed to have his leg in plaster so he must have been carrying a heavy injury. Just imagine Bekele or Farah moving down to 800m to win a major bronze behind somone like Rudisha and Amos. Unreal though that may seem, that is effectively what Aouita did in 1988 and it was a diaspointing championship by his standards.
not sure wrote:
ukathleticscoach wrote:
3:29.77 vs 3:29.46
Unlikely ignoring that Coe ran 3:29 when past his best.
If .31 was the true difference between them he would just draft of Aouita and use his superior speed to out- kick him
Even in a race with pacemakers Aouita would be left at the front with 1 lap to go
Not sure about that. I just watched Aouita winning the 800m bronze medal in Seoul behind Cruz and Ereng neither of whom I think Coe could have beaten in a Olympic championship race over 800m. To top it off Aouita seemed to have his leg in plaster so he must have been carrying a heavy injury. Just imagine Bekele or Farah moving down to 800m to win a major bronze behind somone like Rudisha and Amos. Unreal though that may seem, that is effectively what Aouita did in 1988 and it was a diaspointing championship by his standards.
DeanoUK, Coevett, ukathleticscoach: three blind men. Blinded by their devotion to their heroes.
If Coe, Ovett, Cram, etc., said "I doped" these three posters would claim a Moroccan or Kenyan drugged them and made them say that.