Sebastian Coe vs Said Aouita - 1500/mile race - Who would win?

Yes I made a mistake about Ovett winning the 79 world cup (he didn't take part), so obviously your completely unfounded allegations against Coe being a blood doper, which you have not the slightest evidence for, and are merely the result of your own warped need to defend rampant African doping, are all 100% true.

You type with so much confidence. You type with so much authority. You type as if you have inside info regarding Coe's so-called innocence. You have recently stated you are only 47 year old. I assumed a man as confident as you are of Coe's innocence would be 57 to 62 years old. Someone of an age to really know Coe well. You have also stated you have never broken 60 seconds in 400m. You type as if you have had opportunities to be in lockerrooms with the most elite runners. There's a reason why you are so sure of Coe's innocence. Are you Coe's limousine driver?

Never mind him. deano is right. Coe wipes the floor with Aouita at any distance below 2k.

You need to stop doing that to your sister. That's wrong!

Why Coevette? Why? wrote:

You type with so much confidence. You type with so much authority. You type as if you have inside info regarding Coe's so-called innocence. You have recently stated you are only 47 year old. I assumed a man as confident as you are of Coe's innocence would be 57 to 62 years old. Someone of an age to really know Coe well. You have also stated you have never broken 60 seconds in 400m. You type as if you have had opportunities to be in lockerrooms with the most elite runners. There's a reason why you are so sure of Coe's innocence. Are you Coe's limousine driver?

It's called the presumption of innocence you imbecile. As far as I know, not one actual elite athlete from the 70's or 80's has ever accused Coe of doping, either here on this anonymous forum, or outside of it to the press or in publication (apart from one minor American runner).

I don't know who or what you are, but it's extremely unlikely you're an elite athlete (leaving aside that you're the troll 'blacko/jljlk' who claims to be Bernard Lagat).

According to your logic, I didn't share locker rooms with El G, so that proves El G was a doper.

I provide arguments when I claim that so and so might be a doper. I provide links, for example the first person to link to news articles claiming Aouita was associated with a Belgian doctor arrested for supplying peds. The first person to link to German news reports revealing that the coach of Beyer, Straub, and Herald, had been convicted of supplying a child with potentially lethal peds. The first person to link to Bett's coach also being the coach of Rotich, the coach of the Kenyan team at last year's Commonwealths, and the coach of a junior athlete suspended for EPO use who died suddenly aged 20.

All your 'arguments' about Coe amount to his blood disorder (despite it being explained to you that blood doping could not have caused an infection), a claimed lack of testing for steroids in the 80s (which would explain Coe's famously buffed physique), and the fact that the GDR runners were juiced to the gills. Oh, and that 'everybody cheats'. And now - 'you can't prove Coe was innocent because you're not Steve Ovett, despite Chad's claim'.

Nothing wrong with trolling, the internet and this site wouldn't be the same without a sprinkling of trolls, but the doping apologist trolls here like you have neither humor or intelligence. You're just somewhat sinister and I'm sure bore most people here to death.

Coevett wrote:

Josh Birnbaum wrote:

Ovett did avoid Coe (and vice versa) on the circuit though.

Purposely entering races, then Coe withdraws, and Ovett ends up not even racing.

Coe and Ovett avoided each other many times, instead focused on WRs and wins. Hence they only raced 7 times in their whole career.

That's very true of course, but at least they didn't duck each other when it really mattered - at Olympic Games. They did also sign up to race each other I think 3 times in 1982, but obviously Ovett got injured and Coe was unhealthy too. If both had been healthy they would certainly have raced against each other at least 5 times in 82 (not including semi-finals, and not including the Commonwealth Games).

Well Ovett and Coe could not avoid each other at major championships because they are 800m/1500m runners. There isn't a 5000m option which an equal probability of winning.

Coe ran the perfect 1500m race in Moscow and Los Angeles. A great tactician. IMO better than Aouita for the 1500m.

Never saw Aouita win a tactical 1500m race.

[quote]Why Coevette? Why? wrote:

You type with so much confidence. You type with so much authority. You type as if you have inside info regarding Coe's so-called innocence. You have recently stated you are only 47 year old. I assumed a man as confident as you are of Coe's innocence would be 57 to 62 years old. Someone of an age to really know Coe well. You have also stated you have never broken 60 seconds in 400m. You type as if you have had opportunities to be in lockerrooms with the most elite runners. There's a reason why you are so sure of Coe's innocence. Are you Coe's limousine driver?[/quote]Coe's barber?

Coevett wrote:

I don't know who or what you are, but it's extremely unlikely you're an elite athlete (leaving aside that you're the troll 'blacko/jljlk' who claims to be Bernard Lagat).

You would be funny if you weren't lying about real people.

And knowing Kip, he would never give an insignificant troll like you the honor of a dialogue.

Josh Birnbaum wrote:

Coevett wrote:

That's very true of course, but at least they didn't duck each other when it really mattered - at Olympic Games. They did also sign up to race each other I think 3 times in 1982, but obviously Ovett got injured and Coe was unhealthy too. If both had been healthy they would certainly have raced against each other at least 5 times in 82 (not including semi-finals, and not including the Commonwealth Games).

Well Ovett and Coe could not avoid each other at major championships because they are 800m/1500m runners. There isn't a 5000m option which an equal probability of winning.

Coe ran the perfect 1500m race in Moscow and Los Angeles. A great tactician. IMO better than Aouita for the 1500m.

Never saw Aouita win a tactical 1500m race.

"Ninety percent of life is just showing up." Woody Allen quote. At least Aouita showed up at 1983 W.C. If Coe would have raced 1500m at W.C. in 1983, Coe would have finished fourth or fifth. Back there with Ovett.

Josh Birnbaum wrote:

Ovett did avoid Coe (and vice versa) on the circuit though.

Purposely entering races, then Coe withdraws, and Ovett ends up not even racing.

Coe and Ovett avoided each other many times, instead focused on WRs and wins. Hence they only raced 7 times in their whole career.

Aouita and Cram only raced 8 times (not including 2 heats), 2 of which were road race miles and only 3 races between 83 and 90, their best years. Most, 5 , were when they were both way past their best in the 90's. At least Coe and Ovett met 5 times in their peak years.

Diabalo wrote:

Josh Birnbaum wrote:

Ovett did avoid Coe (and vice versa) on the circuit though.

Purposely entering races, then Coe withdraws, and Ovett ends up not even racing.

Coe and Ovett avoided each other many times, instead focused on WRs and wins. Hence they only raced 7 times in their whole career.

Aouita and Cram only raced 8 times (not including 2 heats), 2 of which were road race miles and only 3 races between 83 and 90, their best years. Most, 5 , were when they were both way past their best in the 90's. At least Coe and Ovett met 5 times in their peak years.

Yes, and after the famous 1985 race they both promised that they would be different to Coe and Ovett and race each other often.

I think that was down to Aouita though. Aouita certainly dodged him in 87.

Actually, I think the 1985 Nice race took Aouita by surprise. Not many people were talking about Cram being in WR form that day. In fact it looked like he was going to be a permanent cripple. He'd already lost to Coe at the start of the season and then even to a raw Tom McKean I think the week or two before Nice. Cruz was seen more of a threat to Aouita than Cram that night. It would also explain why Aouita left his kick so late.

Come to think of it - that 1985 Nice race was the ONLY time that Aouita took on a prime Cram, Ovett, or Coe (other than the Helsinki World Championships).

Coevett wrote:

Come to think of it - that 1985 Nice race was the ONLY time that Aouita took on a prime Cram, Ovett, or Coe (other than the Helsinki World Championships).

i.e. when it mattered.

Coevett wrote:

Come to think of it - that 1985 Nice race was the ONLY time that Aouita took on a prime Cram, Ovett, or Coe (other than the Helsinki World Championships).

Part of that was due to his unparalleled versatility, as it gave him options that few if any had. Had he been your typical pure 1500m or 800m/1500m runner, he surely would’ve competed against those guys in ‘84 and ‘87. He was obviously going to run the 1500m in ‘88, but was already injured, with the 800m making things worse. Coghlan had options at various stages of his career, like in ‘80 and ‘83 when he chose the 5000m over the 1500m, but I don’t see him being blasted for that, nor should he be.

You Said It wrote:

Coevett wrote:

Come to think of it - that 1985 Nice race was the ONLY time that Aouita took on a prime Cram, Ovett, or Coe (other than the Helsinki World Championships).

Part of that was due to his unparalleled versatility, as it gave him options that few if any had. Had he been your typical pure 1500m or 800m/1500m runner, he surely would’ve competed against those guys in ‘84 and ‘87. He was obviously going to run the 1500m in ‘88, but was already injured, with the 800m making things worse. Coghlan had options at various stages of his career, like in ‘80 and ‘83 when he chose the 5000m over the 1500m, but I don’t see him being blasted for that, nor should he be.

Obviously if he had been a pure 800/1500 runner he would have been forced to compete against them, as he was in 83 before whatever he was doing/taking had turned him fully from a 14 minute 5K man into a guy able to run sub 13 while running 3:30 the same season.

Yes, his versatility allowed him to dodge his competitors, then mock Coe's LA victory as 'hollow'.

The comparison with Coghlan is weak. Coghlan, like Moorcroft and others, were moving up to the 5000m expressly to avoid the dominance of Coe, Ovett, Cram. There's nothing wrong with that because Coghlan and Moorcroft weren't claiming to be better than Coe, Cram, and Ovett, or deriding their performances. Also, Ovett and Cram certainly could have moved up to the 5000m in their prime and probably performed close to the level of Aouita and likely better than Coghlan or even Moorcroft, but they didn't need to and preferred to continue racing in the glamour events. (Ovett moved up to the 5000m in 86 because since LA (and in indeed since his railing accident in 81) he had lost speed).

It is ridiculous to say Aouita avoided Coe in LA. He simply ran in the race he had the best chance of winning.

it all makes sense wrote:

It is ridiculous to say Aouita avoided Coe in LA. He simply ran in the race he had the best chance of winning.

For sure it's ridiculous. If someone mentions that Aouta didn't run the 1500m in LA than it's a MUST, an absolute need, to add that the 1500m and the 5000m (in both the events where Aouita was the worlds fastest in 1984) were run within one hour. Aouita HAD to choose one of those. Anyone who wants to be a little bit serious about the subject for sure has to add how totally unfair such such an unbelievable stupid timetable was (same in 1987 and 1988) for an runner like Aouita. Coedeppe never adds this, since almost two years. Also, like a madman, he constantly adds that Aouita "dodged" Coe in Zürich after LA (when in fact Coe himself has stated: "It seems we can't have both...") (a WR attempt by himself and an duel against the world fastest). Coedeppe definitely is not interested in an serious disussion about those subjects., even changing the simplest facts when they don't fit to his agenda - constantly and regularly since almost two years. His fear about the simple fact that Coe's win in LA always could be questiond (what if Aouita would have run this race...) is just enormous.

Also pointing that Aouita didn't race some races and avoided some confrontations. He did this. And probably has "learned" this lession from Coe and Ovett. Two runners from the SAME COUNTRY. Almost the SAME AGE. Running almost the SAME SPECTRUM of events. Who, starting with 1977, definitely could have run against each other on dozens and dozens of oportunities. Just: they didn't. Just bizarre.

The full athletics world was waiting for such an clash. Yet, apart from Prague, Moscow and LA - it didn't happen. Not in 1977. Not in 1978. Not in 1979. Not in 1980. Not in 1981 (both on their absolute height of their powers). Injury problems started in 1982. Still, both could produce some very good results. So, the pattern continous, they have not raced each other. Not in 1982. Not in 1983. Not in 1984. (after this Ovett was not anymore the same). That's an abolute unique chapter in the full history of athletics. But this Coedeppe just - and regularly - points on the fact that Aouita "dodged" his heros. Yet, Aouita HAS raced Cram in 1984 (and wanted to race Coe, who refused the duel). Aouita has raced Cram in 1985. In 1986 Aouita concentrated on the longer events, so a duel against both Coe and Cram on shorter distance than 2000m would not be fair. In 1987 Aouita originally has planned to attack the 10000m WR in La Coruna. Injury problems destroyed this and Cram Aouita "should" have raced. Also before Seoul I think a duel "should" (from a fan based point of view - for sure they and only they decide which races they aredoing) have happened. But I don't think both were interested to race each other before Seoul.

Again: I'm sure Aouita has avoided some confrontations. But to only point on this and totally ignore that Coe and Ovett were the absolute masters in this in THE FULL HISTORY OF ATHLETICS is just astonishing. Also completely ignoring who Aouita actually HAS RACED (and won): for example the reigning Olympic champions over 800m, 1500m, 5000m 10000m. In their event. Also the 3000m European Champion in the Steeplechase to come (where Aouita lost). Or dozens of times against the likes of Maree, Gonzales or Abascal. But also his decision to race the 800m in Seoul (as reigning World and Olympic champion as well as WR holder over 5000m) for Coedeppe is just an easy task, since the event was (according to him) very weak (which Aouita for sure knew already in 1987 when he has decided to try this). (just for clarification: for sure the 800m in Seoul overall was a much stronger competition than the 800m in Moscow 1980 - 21 sub 1:45 athletes compared to 8, for a start...).

I know Coedeppe will not "accept" these facts and just continue with his laughable statements. His fear that someone questions the uniqueness of his heros just seems enormous. What a character.

Coedeppe is a coward who will never admit he is wrong.

Dude's got zero respect for himself or others. Zero honor.

Grow up Tyrone you man child.

I'll admit when I'm wrong, not when I'm right.

Talking about honour when you defend to the death a character like Aouita, lol.

The point the Saidipede doesn't get is that Coe and Ovett knew they would face each other in the major championships (barring injury) so why should they meet on the circuit?

Not saying it's a shame that they ended up running against each other so rarely, but it's not equivalent to Aouita.

Aouita dodged the Brits at the major championships then devalued their achievements and claimed he would have won had he had the balls to show up.