Sebastian Coe vs Said Aouita - 1500/mile race - Who would win?

11.9 wrote:

Deanouk wrote:

...

5) Ovett's perfect day was probably the World Cup in 77, with that 12.0 round the last curve, destroying Walker and the rest in half a dozen strides. 2 of Coe's were his Olympic wins. I don't believe Ovett was unduly affected by heat or illness in Moscow, as he ran the last 100m in the 1500 final (12.6, easing up a little in last few strides) faster than he did when winning the 800m (12.7!). Coe just wanted it more. With 100m to go, Ovett was 0.1sec behind Coe, so for him to defeat Coe's last 100m of 12.1, he'd have had to run a last 100m inside 12.0! He never did that before or after in his career. Indeed, Coe's last 100m remains the fastest in any Championship final over 1500m.

http://thegreatdistancerunners.de/SteveOvett.html

lists Ovett's last 100m in the 1977 World Cup as 11.9.

I have done those lists. I think generally they are very accurate and I would be happy for any error someone can detect and forward to me.

But only very few of the given intermediate times are really checked by myself. Usually they were published at the time the race was held and I took them from there. History tells us that often some (even blatant) errors (especially in intermediate times) were published.

If someone has checked the race and says the last 100m was 12.0 this might be more accurate than the 11.9 I have listed.

said88 wrote:

11.9 wrote:

http://thegreatdistancerunners.de/SteveOvett.html

lists Ovett's last 100m in the 1977 World Cup as 11.9.

I have done those lists. I think generally they are very accurate and I would be happy for any error someone can detect and forward to me.

But only very few of the given intermediate times are really checked by myself. Usually they were published at the time the race was held and I took them from there. History tells us that often some (even blatant) errors (especially in intermediate times) were published.

If someone has checked the race and says the last 100m was 12.0 this might be more accurate than the 11.9 I have listed.

Hi Said88How are you?

Ovett’s last 100m in Düsseldorf was 13.1 not 12.0. The 12.0 split, offered at the time as 11.9 by Harry Wilson using a stop watch, was for the penultimate 100m round the bend. His last 200 was therefore 25.1.

Cheers.

When did Sebastian Coe run 7:54. 32 for the 3000m?

http://thegreatdistancerunners.de/Overall.html

Sayn-Wittgenstein wrote:

When did Sebastian Coe run 7:54. 32 for the 3000m?

http://thegreatdistancerunners.de/Overall.html

08.03.1986 Cosford (GBR) Kodak Classic / ENG v. USA Indoor 3000m(i) 7:54.32 (1.)

Interesting, on 1977 I just noticed that Coe beat both Walker and Bayi in the same season when he was still a nobody.

Subway Surfers wrote:

Interesting, on 1977 I just noticed that Coe beat both Walker and Bayi in the same season when he was still a nobody.

He was starting to show glimpses of the greatness that was to come in 77, when 20. He did win the European indoor 800m title in a time just 0.1sec outside the indoor WR; he set his first UK record (1:44.95) and won the prestigious Emsley Carr mile for the first time, beating the then 1500m WR holder, Bayi.

It is not the case when some suggest he came from nowhere in 79.

Subway Surfers wrote:

Sayn-Wittgenstein wrote:

When did Sebastian Coe run 7:54. 32 for the 3000m?

http://thegreatdistancerunners.de/Overall.html

08.03.1986 Cosford (GBR) Kodak Classic / ENG v. USA Indoor 3000m(i) 7:54.32 (1.)

It was reasonable time for Coe especially since he doesn't run the distance at all in races.

I wonder if he could have ran quicker in that race.

Sayn-Wittgenstein wrote:

Subway Surfers wrote:

08.03.1986 Cosford (GBR) Kodak Classic / ENG v. USA Indoor 3000m(i) 7:54.32 (1.)

It was reasonable time for Coe especially since he doesn't run the distance at all in races.

I wonder if he could have ran quicker in that race.

I've never raced indoors so I'm not sure on that one but surely he could run faster in July then in March?

Subway Surfers wrote:

Interesting, on 1977 I just noticed that Coe beat both Walker and Bayi in the same season when he was still a nobody.

Coe actually took it to Walker in a post Olympic race in 76 when still a teen, but didn't have the strength at that stage. The video below also shows him beating Bayi in 77. I think he has said himself that the Olympic trials in 76 came a few weeks too early for him, otherwise he would probably have made the team and gained invaluable experience.

While some of the history buffs are here I may as well post a video I caught on YouTube the other day. Don't know if you've seen it - from a 1978 GB vs GDR 800m race featuring Olaf Beyer and Straub for the GDR and Dave Warren and Peter Hoffman for GB (Seb Coe was scheduled to run but pulled out at the last minute and replaced by Warren). Hoffman looked like he had a lot of talent with a Dave Wottle type finish, but went backwards after this year. He himself posted the video and claims he knew Beyer was doped.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NkTSeMxAh8

See the jump in knee lift by Beyer in the last 100m.

Sayn-Wittgenstein wrote:

Subway Surfers wrote:

08.03.1986 Cosford (GBR) Kodak Classic / ENG v. USA Indoor 3000m(i) 7:54.32 (1.)

It was reasonable time for Coe especially since he doesn't run the distance at all in races.

I wonder if he could have ran quicker in that race.

Yes, quite a bit quicker, and that was in March.

The Cosford track he ran on was notoriously slow, especially for distance events, as the track was made of wooden boards and athletes would complain of sore feet and legs for days afterward. Nothing like the current mondo banked tracks. I would imagine you could take off about 4 secs for that.

Coe also ran the last 1000m in that race in 2:30, so clearly had a lot left.

I would imagine that in decent conditions on a 400m track with reasonable pacing, he could have run 7:45 that day. Not great, but decent enough for an 800 runner at that time of year.

Subway Surfers wrote:

See the jump in knee lift by Beyer in the last 100m.

Good spot. Don't know why the dirty dopers of the GDR don't have their medals and records taken away. The country doesn't even exist anymore, so it's not as if it's going to cause an international incident or anything.

In the case of Beyer, the evidence is particularly overwhelming. Not only was he named in Stasi files as a doper, his coach was later (in re-unified Germany) convicted of supplying his junior (as in child) athletes potentially lethal performance enhancing drugs - something I was the first person in the world to post about on an English language website (as far as I know). Yep, the same Coevett the doping apologist racists want banned and who the Brojos did threaten to ban.

Steve Ovett, of course, was denied the double gold at the 78 European Championships because of doped up Beyer, and the silver medal in the Moscow 1500 because of likely doped up Straub (and if Straub hadn't gone on his remarkable 700m kick then who knows if the result might have been different?). Jens Peter Herald also had the same coach as Beyer and denied Steve Cram the bronze medal at Seoul.

Back to this race though, I wonder if Seb had ran that day as planned, then both he and Ovett might have been more aware of the strength of Beyer and not underestimated him in Prague?

Coevett wrote:

something I was the first person in the world to post about on an English language website (as far as I know).

As far as you know doesn't go very far at all.

lolz

You think you are so amazing.

You were totes pwned in the other thread with your lies and racist comments and you can't even reply to it.

The brojos won't need to ban you. You will get tired of trolling and you will vanish like your beloved Ajay did.

lolz

lolz lolz wrote:

Coevett wrote:

something I was the first person in the world to post about on an English language website (as far as I know).

As far as you know doesn't go very far at all.

lolz

You think you are so amazing.

You were totes pwned in the other thread with your lies and racist comments and you can't even reply to it.

The brojos won't need to ban you. You will get tired of trolling and you will vanish like your beloved Ajay did.

lolz

Don't know what 'totes pawned' means, but if I was 'totes pawned' in another thread without replying, it's probably because I haven't been arsed to look in that 'othere' thread (there's about 100 threads here with obsessive wierdo SJW freaks accusing me of racism).

lolz lolz wrote:

Coevett wrote:

something I was the first person in the world to post about on an English language website (as far as I know).

As far as you know doesn't go very far at all.

lolz

Lolz. Stop identifying as something you're not.

Well did anyone here outside of Germany know that the coach of Beyer, Straub, and Jens Peter Herold was convicted in a German court of supplying 'potentially life endangering' drugs to his underage athletes?

Coevett wrote:

Well did anyone here outside of Germany know that the coach of Beyer, Straub, and Jens Peter Herold was convicted in a German court of supplying 'potentially life endangering' drugs to his underage athletes?

Yes.

Go away now with your old news.

There are people here who have been on Letsrun way longer than you, racist noob.

lolz lolz wrote:

Yes.

Go away now with your old news.

There are people here who have been on Letsrun way longer than you, racist noob.

Well you wouldn't be one of them as anyone who posts "lolz lolz", couldn't be much more than ten years old.

Coevett wrote:

While some of the history buffs are here I may as well post a video I caught on YouTube the other day. Don't know if you've seen it - from a 1978 GB vs GDR 800m race featuring Olaf Beyer and Straub for the GDR and Dave Warren and Peter Hoffman for GB (Seb Coe was scheduled to run but pulled out at the last minute and replaced by Warren). Hoffman looked like he had a lot of talent with a Dave Wottle type finish, but went backwards after this year. He himself posted the video and claims he knew Beyer was doped.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NkTSeMxAh8

Straub has some strange arm action.

Is there the 1500m race footage from this event which Ovett won?