From what I've read, Zatopek felt he was a great sportsman, but that his coach was maybe giving him something that sped him up quite a bit.
He seemed to have had lots of troubles post-racing career and passed away early.
Any thoughts on Kuts and where he rates among distance runners?
where did you read this?
@sky wrote:
where did you read this?
There is a great website, racingpast.ca, that has great profiles of middle and long distance runners of the past. I read it there on the Kuts profile. Lots of interesting information there if one is interested in the old-timers.
Double Olympic champ in 1956. Won a classic 10,000. (Sports Illustrated had a lap-by-lap summary of the race, analogous to a round-by-round summary of a prizefight. Imagine SI doing something like that today.) He trained intelligently and prodigiously--yet surprisingly (from our current point of view) he took two "rest" days per week. He still accumulated more mileage than many of his contemporaries. His first 5,000m WR was 13:56.6; his last was 13:35.0, and it held up for eight years. He was a game changer, in terms of what people thought was possible. He was quite stocky (and a former boxer), with a height of 172cm/5-8 and a weight of 72kg/159lb.
As a Ukrainian youth (born 1927) in the Soviet Union, he had a very bad time during WWII and was essentially without a home (his village had been destroyed) afterward. He did have continuing digestive problems and crippling stomach pain, which fueled his alcoholism and early death (most likely suicide at age 48, combining sleeping pills and alcohol). I have never heard anything, one way or another, about his using PEDs; but I remember reading about a study that the Soviets did in the 1950s, which showed that distance runners who ate more meat performed better. As an international athlete he may well have received more meat than the typical Soviet citizen was receiving, at a time of great hardship in the USSR.
For completeness' sake, here is a summary (gleaned from Fred Wilt's wonderful How They Train) of some of his training.
SPRING
M 25min warmup (jog/drills); 6 x 120-150m accelerations; 75min cross-country incl. 10 x 600-800 fast; 15min springy, ball-of-the-feet running.
T 30min wu; 8 x 100m accels; drills/plyo; 20 x 200 @ 28-29, 5 x 400 @ 68; 15min springy running.
W 90min xc incl. 10 x 1000m @ ~2:50.
Th "Rest"--60min wu in AM.
F 30min wu; 5 x 120-150m @ top speed; drills/plyo; 5 x 200 @ 28-29, 20 x 400 @ 67-69, 5 x 200 @ 28-29; 15min springy running; gymnastics.
St 105min xc, incl. 12 x 600-800 (~1:32-1:35 for 600, ~2:08-2:10 for 800); drills/plyo; light gymnastics.
Sn Active rest, probably like Thursday's.
SUMMER (training week)
M AM 40min jogging and gymnastics---PM 35min wu; 5 x 80-100m accels; 3 x 200 @ 27-28/100m jogs, 15 x 400 (11 @ 64-65, 3 @ 67-68, 1 @ 63)/100m jogs; 15min springy; gymnastics.
T AM (only) 40min fartlek xc.
W AM 45min wu (jog, drills, plyo)---PM 35min wu; 5 x 150m accels; 5 x 400 @ 61-64, 2 x 1200 @ 3:12-3:16, 3 x 400 @ 65-66 (rests not listed); 10mins springy.
Th 90min fartlek xc (bursts from 100m to 600m); 15min plyo.
F AM Jogging, then gymnastics---PM 25min wu, 3 x 200m accels; 6 x (100m fast, 600m @ 2:42-2:46); 15min springy.
St Active rest
Sn AM 30min drills/plyo--- PM 35min wu incl. drills; 5 x 150m accels; 3 x 1600 @ 4:40-4:47, 6 x 400m @ 65-67 (100m jogs after all); 10min springy; unspecified warmdown.
SUMMER (competition week)
M Active rest: 40min wu
T AM 35min wu---PM 30min wu, 5 x 120-150m accels; 3 x 400 @ 61-65/100m jogs, 1600 @ 4:23/800 jog, 1200 @ 3:20/600m slow, 3 x 400 @ 65-66; 10min springy; gymnastics.
W 50min xc; 10 x 400 @ 63-65, 5 x 200 @ 28-29; 10mins springy.
Th 30min wu; 4 x 200m accels; 2000m @ 5:33/jog 800, 1200 @ 3:18, 1200 @ 3:22/jog 600s; 10mins springy; gymnastics.
F AM (only) 40min slow run, gymnastics
St PM (only) 35min wu
Sn Race
sky wrote:
From what I've read, Zatopek felt he was a great sportsman, but that his coach was maybe giving him something that sped him up quite a bit.
Zatopek had the greatest admiration for Kuts, and said NO SUCH THING.
The problem is that modern runners are stupid and think that drugs are the solution for everything, especially in America.
Kuts was a heavy eater, even during his prime when he often ran quite overweight. You can see this in some photos and videos of him running, the fat jiggling all over his body. It was amazing he could run so fast in that manner but he had a great mentality. After he stopped running, his weight ballooned ridiculously high, plus he was a heavy drinker too and he died from heart problems.
Thanks for that information.
I have enjoyed watching Kuts run against Pirie in the '56 Olympics on youtube. He looked like a fantastic distance runner and it is sad that he had so much troubles later in life.
That is totally stupid wrote:
sky wrote:
From what I've read, Zatopek felt he was a great sportsman, but that his coach was maybe giving him something that sped him up quite a bit.
Zatopek had the greatest admiration for Kuts, and said NO SUCH THING.
The problem is that modern runners are stupid and think that drugs are the solution for everything, especially in America.
Kuts was a heavy eater, even during his prime when he often ran quite overweight. You can see this in some photos and videos of him running, the fat jiggling all over his body. It was amazing he could run so fast in that manner but he had a great mentality. After he stopped running, his weight ballooned ridiculously high, plus he was a heavy drinker too and he died from heart problems.
It is just something that I read at that website that I already mentioned. Doesn't mean it was true. It supposedly was from training sessions that Zatopek did with Kuts in Melbourne, where Kuts did some zippy 400 meter runs.
He sure looked like a gutsy runner on the videos of him I've watched.
sky wrote:
It is just something that I read at that website that I already mentioned. Doesn't mean it was true. It supposedly was from training sessions that Zatopek did with Kuts in Melbourne, where Kuts did some zippy 400 meter runs.
He sure looked like a gutsy runner on the videos of him I've watched.
No, it was not true at all, and you're mixing up runners.
Zatopek ran only the marathon at Melbourne, and they did not do serious training together.
Maybe you're thinking of Dave Stephens, or some of the other Australians, who ran 440s with him on occasion.
sky wrote:
It is just something that I read at that website
That article was an editorial, and there's nothing in it based on fact. Here's the section you mentioned.
"Zatopek thought that Kuts had used “enhancers.” He had run parts of a workout with Kuts in Melbourne before the Games and saw Kuts being given special drink solutions during the session- always prepared by his coach. “Then suddenly phhhhhhhew- he was away- speeding up from 66-68s quarters to 60-62s,” Zatopek recalled." (Letsrun.com)
Notice the last part? Someone "said" that on Letsrun, so he posted it in the article.
Hahaha... seriously?????? wrote:
sky wrote:
It is just something that I read at that website
That article was an editorial, and there's nothing in it based on fact. Here's the section you mentioned.
"Zatopek thought that Kuts had used “enhancers.” He had run parts of a workout with Kuts in Melbourne before the Games and saw Kuts being given special drink solutions during the session- always prepared by his coach. “Then suddenly phhhhhhhew- he was away- speeding up from 66-68s quarters to 60-62s,” Zatopek recalled." (Letsrun.com)
Notice the last part? Someone "said" that on Letsrun, so he posted it in the article.
This is why we can't have nice things.