You're no Lt Columbo, son. You need to watch/read more murder mysteries. The murder was meticulously planned, and done elsewhere. With that said, the perps always trip themselves up. How many times do people make threats on Facebook? Those threats may get deleted, but they never go away.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZiv8vkxMacI think we can rule out suicide at this point.
sherlock is not here wrote:
https://www.flotrack.org/articles/5052471-how-david-torrence-assisted-in-the-jama-aden-drug-bust
The article mentions possible acts of violence.
Thank you for this; I've been critical of Let's Run for seemingly condoning the stonewalling (deleting) discussion of this case...
And it was always, obviously a "case."
This is Maricopa County, Arizona, remember, and how many millions of $$$ they've paid out for past malfeasance? It's difficult to believe that the system that enabled that has changed so that much.
Please continue and keep us updated, thank you.
Jama Aden is war lord.
Weren't there any CCTV cameras in the condo?
I think the ex-gf who stayed there is relevant to this case.
It is fairly possible that someone did not try and drown him. A huge, strong man could have surprised him and choked him seamlessly to death. They say there were no signs of struggle, but how can long does it take to choke a 130-pound guy anyway? Choked him then threw him into the pool.
Great investigation letsrun.
A question I have is what was the difference between the water and air temperature at the time that David entered the water?
http://uopnews.port.ac.uk/2012/05/30/scientists-warn-swimmers-of-heart-attack-risk/
It could also be a case of shallow-water blackouts. It happens when someone (even a good swimmer) tries to hold their breath or swim underwater for too long. The person blacks out, involuntarily inhales water and dies. A good article here: http://www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/news/shallow-water-blackout-the-silent-killer-of-swimmers/
MarkWirt wrote:
It could also be a case of shallow-water blackouts. It happens when someone (even a good swimmer) tries to hold their breath or swim underwater for too long. The person blacks out, involuntarily inhales water and dies. A good article here:
http://www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/news/shallow-water-blackout-the-silent-killer-of-swimmers/
Reminds me of this story of an unfortunate death in a swimming pool
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/dartmouth-swimmer-tate-ramsden-dies-during-underwater-practice-n487191rojo wrote:While not a lawyer, I 100% thought the same thing you did in terms of probable cause. How can there not be probable cause for a search warrant of his facebook account when he multiple people have said that Torrence told them he received a death threat via facebook. Isn't making a death threat itself a crime?
What Maricopa County says about probable cause:
https://www.maricopa.gov/919/Probable-Cause-Versus-Reasonable-SuspiciYMMV wrote:
A question I have is what was the difference between the water and air temperature at the time that David entered the water?
there's no way the pool water in an Arizona August was cold enough for this to be a possibility.
Also, people have mentioned trying to guess his password. I'm sure that facebook has a way to deactivate the account and even keep correct passwords from working for accounts officially confirmed as belonging to a deceased person. This is just a guess but if I'm Facebook and you've confirmed John Doe is dead, then I'd make it so even the correct password stops working to keep people from trying to guess the password and mess with the account.
Definitely a lot of cause for Torrence's family to have access to his Facebook accounts. I do recognize that the theories about shallow water blackouts and other causes are very possible however and don't want to indulge too much in conspiracy here. But for his family to still be fighting for something that seems so simple as his Facebook, feels wrong to me.
And it is worth recognizing that this took place in Sheriff Joe's Maricopa County...
Numerous famous people get death threats. Someone on our speed skating team did (the world champion). It's just proof that there are morons on the internet.
kqnoicnewo wrote:
Definitely a lot of cause for Torrence's family to have access to his Facebook accounts. I do recognize that the theories about shallow water blackouts and other causes are very possible however and don't want to indulge too much in conspiracy here. But for his family to still be fighting for something that seems so simple as his Facebook, feels wrong to me.
And it is worth recognizing that this took place in Sheriff Joe's Maricopa County...
This is the real story: that the family can't access his Facebook accounts. That combined with the fact that there are questions from his family regarding the circumstances of his death. Jon Gault did a good job with this piece. His editorial oversight needs a steadier hand, not one that fans the flames of conspiracy.
Old Timey Guy wrote: How specifically do people think he was murdered/drowned?
If you want to kill someone and make it look like drowning, you can inject the person with a fast-acting paralytic and push him into the water. Because the paralytic (not naming it but it's commonly used in anesthesia) leaves no trace in the body (except for in a small percentage of the population who have a specific enzyme mutation), the autopsy would indicate drowning as a cause of death.
The needle mark might go unnoticed by the pathologist and they'd never think to run the panel that would indicate the presence of the paralytic in the small group with the mutation. If the dead person didn't have the mutation, there'd be no way to detect the paralytic.
I'm not suggesting this is a likely scenario or one that is borne out by evidence. I know nothing about David Torrence and/or his death other than what I read here just now. Just answering the question as to how this would be possible - and the method I described does not involve struggle or someone holding the victim underwater. (Political assassinations have been carried out along these lines, FWIW.)
I should think that when someone gets death threats and then turns up dead, LE would take some extra steps to ensure that the threats and the death weren't related.
I think staging an accidental drowning cover up would be even easier.
Two strong guys could subdue someone and then hold their head under water in a bathtub, sink, or even a bucket. Then, they could carry the body to the pool when no one was around and dump it in.
Does anyone see how preposterous this is? Is it good journalism to reveal that there were death threats about David Torrence? Yes. That is mostly all Jon Gault did. Mostly.
But is it healthy to then speculate on these boards not only that he was murdered, but to speculate as to how? This is irresponsible and this is LetsRun at its worst.
There were numerous threads re: death of David Torrence months ago. Wasn't free-diving mentioned months ago? In theory, holding one's breath under water for longer and longer duration causes more and more oxygen to be stored in one's spleen. Under controlled circumstances, the human record is a bit over 20 minutes. It's common for whales to go 45 minutes or more sans fresh air. In theory, when one goes anaerobic the stored oxygen in spleen may help an athlete. I can't image David Torrence was vigorously swimming laps in a pool at the apartment complex. An apartment complex normally will have a pool no bigger than 15 yards in length. Who want's to swim a mile in a 15 yard pool? Is it possible Torrence didn't know his limitation regarding free-diving?
Marathon Fan wrote:
Weren't there any CCTV cameras in the condo?
I think the ex-gf who stayed there is relevant to this case.
It is fairly possible that someone did not try and drown him. A huge, strong man could have surprised him and choked him seamlessly to death. They say there were no signs of struggle, but how can long does it take to choke a 130-pound guy anyway? Choked him then threw him into the pool.
Great investigation letsrun.
Huh? There was no evidence for choking- blood vessels in the eyes were not burst- first thing that a ME looks for. There were no signs of defensive wounds either, lack of thumb/finger claw marks or bruising on the neck.