Road Racing & Training Thread: Week Ending 04 Feb 2018

Good to hear you are back at it Gordon. How is Jr.’s training coming along? Is he sleeping in an altitude tent yet?

Stat - Yeah I need to keep my powder dry. Those sub 5:50 milers I did with 60s rest felt pretty mild, even with the wind and miles. I figure it felt about like 10k pace so hopefully it will be a yuge day. I ran 29:58 on the same course last year. Oh what a difference 2800 miles or so makes!

Gordon - Glad to see you back training.. welcome back

Thanks for taking the time to read my lengthy post.

No, not exactly. Early in the cycle they have Tuesday "speed" work. This is 5k-10k pace, distance always about 3 miles of work, varies weekly from 12x400m up to 4x1200m, but I don't think there's a specific reason for this, just for variation they change it each week. You could split them up however you want weekly.

Weekly 'strength' workouts replace weekly 'speed' workouts for the last ~8 weeks. These start at 6x1mi with quarter mile rest at somewhere around 10k pace all the way up to goal pace minus 10s, depending on half or full and your fitness, and build to 2x3mi then back down. (so, 6x1 this week, 4x1.5 next week, 3x2, 2x3, then back down till 6x1 like 2 weeks out from race day).

Weekly 'tempo' workouts continue through the whole plan and build in mileage, but they define tempo as "goal pace," not traditional tempo definition. Especially when considering a full marathon vs. the "one hour race pace" definition of tempo.

I think the basic idea is work on VO2 max early in the cycle, get more specific with your 'tempo' runs, and use the 'strength' runs to make 'tempo'/race pace feel more comfortable. Pretty basic stuff but also very effective for me so far.

I was just saying expect to see some easy miles, 6 mile's worth of mid 6's, and a mid distance run in the low 6:40s every week till the end of March. If I'm lucky.

...and the downside of Hanson's I'd say is a lot of stuff is set in place based on picking the right goal race pace, so if you screw that up the whole experience can go south quick (especially if you pick too aggressively). Since my fitness is in flux I've stuck to the structure but tried to focus on feel a little bit more than strict goals this time compared to before.

Thanks for all the congratulatory remarks, I didn't even know how close I was to breaking 17 until I saw the finishing clock was at 16:5X... but I'll take 17:05

As for the rest of the week, I did a lot of LT work on Tuesday (6 miles total) with the rest of the week just easy running. Totaled about 58 miles or so.

Wife goes back to work this week so I'm just planning my running day by day, some general plan, but I would need to be flexible. I'll see how well my 2 month old would sleep through the night (wife is a night shift RN).I'm most likely gonna be running on my new to me used treadmill. My running is certainly gonna take the hit, but that's ok. It is just running

Someone recommended posting in this thread (just recently posted a sub 1:30 half thread) so I'll join in.

28M, 6'6 , 198

Background: I was overweight for the first 22 years of my life before I finally got control of my eating habits. When I was in middle school/high school, I threw shot/disc and didn't run. I was an obese kid. I weighed 325 at my heaviest and started running in mid 2011 when I was 300 lbs to lose weight. I ran my first 5K in 33 minutes late 2011. Shortly after, I fell in love with running and became serious about living a healthier lifestyle. I have lost almost 130 lbs.

Current PRs:

Mile - 5:47

5K- 19:55

4 mile - 26:07

5 mile - 34:05

10K - 41:59

10 mile - 1:09:53 (split during HM)

Half - 1:31:23 (most recent PR on 1/8/18)

Full - 3:46:02 (LOL don't ask- I know I can run so much faster)

Currently, I am training to break 1:30 in the half marathon in a few weeks at Mesa-PHX. Training has been going really well and I feel like I'm right on the edge of dipping into the 1:29s. I never thought I would get here. I recently did a tune up half on 1/8/18 and finished in 1:31:23, which was just over 3 minutes off my previous personal best (1:34:27). Here's my training for the past week.

Jan 29 - Feb 4, 2018

Mon -- 5.01 easy @ 9:19/mi

Tue -- 7.27 @ 7:47/mi (4 x 1200 w/ 400m jogging recovery - 4:41, 4:46, 4:52, 5:06 - went too fast at the beginning and fizzled out- jogging recovery too fast i.e. 9:00 pace)

Wed -- 6.24 easy @ 8:08/mi

Thu -- 45 minutes of strength training

Fri -- 10 @ 7:31 (3 miles @ GHMP, 90s jogging recovery, 3 miles @ GHMP - (7:15, 6:55, 6:48) 9:55/mi recovery (6:48, 6:55, 6:49)

Sat -- 5.0 miles @ 8:11 (4 x :20 strides)

Sun -- 11.25 miles @ 7:38/mi (1 mi easy (8:10), 5 progressive (7:35, 7:25, 7:04, 6:57, 6:41), 5.25 easy (8:04, 8:09, 8:13, 8:14, 7:56)

Best week of training yet in this HM cycle - 44.7 miles for the week, 3 weeks to go til the Mesa-PHX Half Marathon.

Alright week for me. Training for a marathon on May 26. Goal is 2:40. 26 years old. PRS: 4:29 mile, 15:20 5k, 32:30 10k, 2:47 marathon. Live in Michigan, so the weather is terrible... Slowing working my way into training. Have already gotten in a 15 miler last week at 6:33 pace.

M-7 easy

T-8 (2 warm up, 4 miles of hill repeats, 2 cool down)

W-Off

T-7 easy

F-4 easy

S-10 6:25 pace

s-10 easy

Total: 46

Very cool story. It's impossible not to be impressed by the will power and, frankly, bravery that it must have taken to become a runner at 300 pounds.

Jeremy - you just PR'ed with a 2 month old? Congrats man...super impressive. I didn't even run 5k total in the first 2 months with Jr.

AJ - Jr's successfully completed the "hold your own head upright" "regularly sleep through the night" "control left and right side independently" and "roll over" training phases. Next up include "sit upright unsupported" and "eat real food."

Yeah, with the wife being on maternity leave, she was able to help my running. Sleep wasn't optimal, but was ok. The challenge starts later this week, where I have to put two kids to bed (2 year old and a 2 month old), feed the two month old every few hours, then get them ready for daycare the next day (daycare opens at 6:30 am), drop them off, try to squeeze in a little running, then go to work, maybe have to pick them up too.

Or alternatively, get up before they get up (infant and toddler wake up times= inconsistent and unknown) get some miles on the treadmill, shower, then get them ready for daycare.

I'm just gonna have to double on days my wife isn't working or something...

Smoove wrote:

Very cool story. It's impossible not to be impressed by the will power and, frankly, bravery that it must have taken to become a runner at 300 pounds.

Thank you. I always wanted to be a runner. To be honest, I would go to track meets in high school and watch in amazement as these kids were flying around the track. I always wanted to be one but I was too lazy and didn't want to put in the work it required. Watching the 4 x 800 and a good 3200 meter duel (from Ohio) was always a highlight for me. Running is my life now.

If anyone wants to follow me on Strava, here's my profile. I'll gladly follow back as I love seeing everyone's training.

I just followed you.. really cool story.

I'll invite you to our strava group.

Welcome wdude! Great to see another >6', >190lb, ~90min half runner in these parts (though I'm only 6'2", 192 right now).

In fall of early Nov. 2016 I ran a half PR of 1:35high, and followed that up in March 2017 with a 1:28low in the middle of marathon training. At the time I thought the biggest difference maker was total mileage (40mpw vs >50mpw), not necessarily specific half marathon focused killer workouts. But now that I think about it I hadn't done any track work during Nov. build either, so maybe I'm wrong (just goal pace runs and long progression runs).

Since my paces were focused on a marathon they weren't necessarily geared towards the half performance so I'm not sure they will help as much as our similar backgrounds may expect, but my last Hanson's 'strength' run before that half was 2x3mi @ 6:55 avg pace (with 1mi jog in between). This was during my 3rd or 4th 50+ mile week and first thing in the morning before food or coffee which is always a time penalty...but I don't think it was indicative of the 6:45 pace I ran a couple weeks later for 13.1.

About 6-7 weeks out when I was still doing the track intervals I was doing 6x800 w/400 rest or 5x1000 w/400 rest at 6:10-6:15 pace during weekly mileages in the low 40s, and I'd say I felt in control enough that the last rep could be my fastest rep pretty consistently. (but some of my jog recoveries could be 9:15-9:30)....that'd be ~4:39 for 1200m? A touch faster than your week, but you also have ~7s/mi extra on race day compared to what I ran if the goal is

Shoot. I've been gone too long. Forgot the "less than" symbol is also the "cut off the rest of the stuff you type but post with no warning" symbol.

I'm probably forgetting already, but I think the other things I said were...

Did you taper for the 91min half or run it through training? The 2x3 at goal place looks like it was pretty in control...how did that feel? 90s is a short enough rest compared to the interval duration that it seems like a pretty strong run if it didn't feel like you were squeezing every last bit out of that last mile.

How old are your 5k and 10k PRs? I think the VDOT calculator would actually grade out a 90min half as better than either of those, so that would be pretty impressive and sounds like you're improving.

If I had to guess I'd say you're certainly knocking on the door for sub 90.

Hi Gordon - thank you!

I think my best indicator so far that I am close to the sub 1:30 is last Friday's 8 mile w/ 5 @ GMHP - I ran that at 4:45am, right after rolling out of bed with nothing in my stomach. I definitely think running first thing in the morning is a time penalty. My real test will be this Friday; I have 9 miles w/ 7 at GMHP - if I can hit those splits and not feel absolutely wrecked after, I will be in a good position going into PHX. Those 1200s were done after a 12 hr work day, in the dark along Mission Beach. In my defense, I was pretty tired and it was sandy on the path along the beach, so I had some pretty poor surface grip. It was pretty poor pacing on my part.

Yesterday's 11 was a confidence builder - I was really surprised to see a 6:41 at the end of the progression. I felt pretty relaxed during that mile.

Anybody else have an issue with psyching themselves out before a big race? I really am trying to work on my mental game. Anyways, looking forward to seeing you guys on Strava. Happy running!

Kudos on making a change and your new love of running.

Have you run Mesa-Phx before? That's a wicked fast course so if you're close in training I'd be fairly confident in getting your goal.

BTW - incredible improvement from you in such a short period of time. Being a bigger guy and wanting to run for a long long time from now - I really try and keep my miles relatively low. I'm not a big fan of 50+mpw. I try and balance my life and adding in strength training has really helped a lot.

Back to your original question - The 91 min half was a mini taper I guess? I ran a few less miles and lessened intensity the week leading up. Here's that race - it was definitely the best executed half I've ever ran and pretty sure the first one I negative split -

- I did not expect to shave 3 minutes off my previous best, I was actually looking to go into the race and break into the 1:33s.

5K PR is from late 2016; only time I've ever broke 20. I never really raced the 5k much in 2017, I ran 20:12 once. However the 4 mile PR (26:07) is from Sept of last year and I split like 20:00 at the 5K. 10K PR is from an indoor 10K in February of 2017. My actually outdoor 10K race PR is like 45:xx LOL. I think I'm in 19:30 and 41:45 10K shape now? If I get my sub 1:30 at PHX, I am going to start focusing on taking down my shorter distance PRs. Would like to get close to a sub 19 5k and a sub 40 10K in 2018.