Are heavy trainers really the answer for injury prevention?

Your thread title is confusing - it sounds like you are saying the opposite to the content of your post.

I agree with you - I switched to flats-only for all training and racing, the ~6-7oz variety, back in 2002 (I think I started with NB rc230....? 210?) and never looked back. No real injuries since then (seriously) other than a recent weird upper thigh muscle tear that is taking forever to go away, but it's probably not shoe-related.

The caveat is that you and I are both probably lightweight and have good, neutral form. That's the key. I don't think doing all running in flats is realistic for everyone.

Are you sure you didn't get sore from bumping your miles and now you're better after cutting back?

RU Sure? wrote:

Are you sure you didn't get sore from bumping your miles and now you're better after cutting back?

With the muscle tear? I don't know. It's in such an odd location for a distance runner. I wasn't running huge mileage, and I actually got the injury a week after my cutback week while doing an easy 6 miles on the treadmill. It's really annoying. I just went about half a month with no running, and cautiously started up again two days ago. I feel like I put a big dent in my spring racing plans. I had a HM on the schedule at the end of February that I'm not feeling good about, obviously.

I really want to run in lighter flats as they feel great and my stride is wonderful in them. But my achilles just can't take it. After a few runs, and sometimes just one run, it is too much.

In a bigger, cushioned, neutral trainer, I'm pretty good to go, though.

I find having a 3 shoe rotation is best. A light, low profile shoe for speed days, a kid level neutral trainer for long runs, and a heavy cushioned trainer for recovery and easy days. I use the Saucony Kinvara, the Saucony Ride, and the Adidas Supernova

Jgvjyvjgv wrote:

I find having a 3 shoe rotation is best. A light, low profile shoe for speed days, a kid level neutral trainer for long runs, and a heavy cushioned trainer for recovery and easy days. I use the Saucony Kinvara, the Saucony Ride, and the Adidas Supernova

That's how it started for me. Well, two pairs. I bought flats for speedwork and races, and had the trainers for the rest. And one day soon after I got that first pair of flats, I just decided I really liked the feeling of running in the flats more. When I switched, my calves were a little sore for a week or so. I remember I consciously decided to up my cadence around the same time I made the switch. I was still a fairly new runner, and I read (on here, actually) about the whole 180 thing. It all worked out for me.

lorellma - I knew I wasn't the only one! I'm 6'1 148 and even when I was chunkier and had that sexy heelstrike back in 8th grade I always preferred the flat racers to the heavy ones.

The Claws - My buddy is just like you. His Achilles can't take the pounding and his calves are extremely weak. He weightlifts too(195 bench, 245? Squat) but his calves are weaker than mine. Have you tried any strengthening work and mobility exercises on your Achilles?

Jgvjyvjgv - That sounds like a good plan but my cadence is like 150 with heavy shoes and it feels like I have ankle weights and SLOG in them(I sometimes have to stop every 4 miles to stretch out and lightly massage my calves because there is so much blood in them.) My normal cadence is 171 on easy runs to give you a comparison.

RejectJogger wrote:

The Claws - My buddy is just like you. His Achilles can't take the pounding and his calves are extremely weak. He weightlifts too(195 bench, 245? Squat) but his calves are weaker than mine. Have you tried any strengthening work and mobility exercises on your Achilles?

Yeah, it could be something like that. It is actually only my left achilles. And for much of last year I was out of the game with a big injury there. I think some of it came from too many runs in my lighter flats, but you never really know.

So I have been working on strength and mobility stuff in the lower legs. Maybe I'll get there some day. In the meantime, I'll try to be happy running in full squish shoes and reading about you guys out logging miles in the thin flats like all the hard core guys of the 70s and earlier.

Reject-

Back several decades ago I was a broke college kid with no more eligibility that was in need of running shoes. Only extra pair I had was Nike race flats, both the Duelist and Air Mariah. Amazing thing that happened when I started doing daily runs in flats is the PF issues I had went away. My non-professional opinion is the foot needs the 26 joints to articulate. Shoes with a lot of motion control and other gimmicks hinder this natural movement. When I was able to afford "better" training shoes I got injured so I went back to race flats. Hated the minimalist craze from a few years back but love my flats.

(fairly efficient, short, light guy with a Seko shuffle and PR's set 30 years ago)

In Born to Run by Christopher McDougall this topic is addressed fairly completely so I recommend you read it if you haven't, but what it basically concludes is that if you grew up wearing minimalistic shoes or without shoes your feet have developed in a different way so that you don't need the kind of support that trainers typically provide and if you start wearing them they will likely cause pain especially in the arches and joints. The same is true the other way around, so stick to what you started out with. If you want to transition from trainers to minimal shoes or barefoot running you have to do it gradually over multiple pairs of shoes and letting them break down over a long time so that your feet can strengthen in the right way.

I had a similar experience with my knee around the time I turned forty. I got a couple pairs of "protective" shoes and it got worse then went away almost immediately when I switched to doing all my runs in racing shoes. I knew others who had similar experiences, but not everyone is like that.

redtoprunner wrote:

In Born to Run by Christopher McDougall this topic is addressed fairly completely so I recommend you read it if you haven't, but what it basically concludes is that if you grew up wearing minimalistic shoes or without shoes your feet have developed in a different way so that you don't need the kind of support that trainers typically provide and if you start wearing them they will likely cause pain especially in the arches and joints. The same is true the other way around, so stick to what you started out with. If you want to transition from trainers to minimal shoes or barefoot running you have to do it gradually over multiple pairs of shoes and letting them break down over a long time so that your feet can strengthen in the right way.

Maybe I need to reread this, because this isn't how I remember it. Everyone is better off in lighter shoes. I'd your feet aren't strong enough to handle it, make them stronger by transitioning slowly. It shouldn't take more that one training cycle to get nearly all the benefits.

Have you tried higher-drop light or moderately light shoes? My Achilles complain when I wear lower-drop shoes and don't when I wear higher-drop ones, regardless of the weight or amount of cushioning. I've had a lot of success with Nike Lunar Tempos, though it's tough to find them anymore.