Lydiard schedule - time based approach

dropthebase wrote:

I'm not as fast as Lydiard's boys so doing 100 miles in 10-12 hrs a week is out of the question. I do however want to spend enough time in the aerobic zones that he suggests so that I can improve as fast as possible.

I'm thinking about alternating 1/4 and 3/4 effort days like so:

How does this schedule look?

Monday: 90 minutes at 1/4 effort

Tuesday: 60 minutes at 3/4 effort

Wednesday: 90 minutes at 1/4 effort

Thursday: 60 minutes at 3/4 effort

Friday: 90 minutes at 1/4 effort

Saturday: 120-150 minutes at 1/4 effort

Sunday: 60 minutes at 3/4 effort

Thoughts?

My 1/4 effort pace right now is at around 9:30 min/mile and my 3/4 effort pace is at around an 8 min/mile.

I'm 24 and am preparing to run a BQ by the end of the year hopefully.

You better get you a pro coach online.

With all due respect and not to sound arrogant but I don't think I need a coach to run a sub 3:05.

I was in 3:30 shape by following Daniel's 2Q plan last year and only began running in March.

I'm deconditioned now because of some poor eating habits and have spent some time dieting off the weight.

Currently i'm acclimated to running 80 mpw (though it's all aerobic mileage and no fast stuff)

Looks pretty good. The models I remember seeing had two 3/4 efforts in a week instead of three. They also included a fartlek session to touch on some quicker paces as well as strides on easy days.

How many hours a week are you running right now? If you're at 8 or 9 you could be doing weeks like this soon. If not, well, it could take a little while to get there.

Yeah I replaced the weekly fartlek session with a 3/4 effort session since speed isn't really of a concern for me atm.

I'm also doing these runs on a treadmill (probably for another few weeks until it gets nicer outside) so switching to a sprinting pace on my poverty treadmill constantly will be very annoying.

I've been running on average 12-13 hrs a week but with much lower intensity. Got too comfortable indoors and jogging made it easier to watch movies lol - so now that i'm cutting back on total time a bit but increasing intensity, I hope i'll improve at a faster rate

You might consider getting Greg McMillan's book. He is a Lydiard disciple, and there are plans in there you can use. Moreover, the main thrust of the book is that he tells you how to tailor a plan to your own strengths.

Cool stuff. That's a lot of hours, so you should mostly be fine. But I would probably err on the side of caution and not do three, 3/4 effort runs next week. If it were me, I'd start with adding one, and then I wouldn't do a second one until I felt one hundred percent sure I was recovered, so maybe 4 to 6 days. Basically I'd take 3-4 weeks to get up to three, 3/4 effort runs.

I don't think you need a coach either. Arthur changed from miles based to time based schedules in later years for exactly the reason you mention, slower people were needing too much time to cover the miles. Just remember that it's a schedule and not the Tablets from Sinai, pay attention to how you're responding as you proceed and don't be afraid to make adjustments.

Do you guys have any tips on how to quickly get into the desired HR zone of effort?

What I've been doing is warming up for the first 5 minutes or so, then running fast to jack up the heart rate near the top end of my desired range and gradually decreasing my speed over the course of the run so that I stay within the range.

Sounds like i'm pulling hairs but I'm trying to teach myself not to push too hard (which is my tendency when I don't train with a monitor) -and fyi ,though it may be intuitive, I've gotten injured several times doing this so until I learn my body better, I'll let my heart dictate the pace

I do my 3/4 efforts based on HR (roughly). I tend to do about 10-15 minutes of easy warmup running, then I do 60 minutes at the desired effort (so total run time is 70 to 80 minutes). When I start the working portion of the run, I just slowly squeeze the effort down until it feels right. I think this takes somewhere around 1/2 mile to a mile. I'm in no rush to do it, really. I feel like the goal of these workouts is to feel your upper end aerobic paces, not to spike and surge things. And if I technically only hit 52 minutes or something at the goal effort, I'm totally fine with that.

What I like about Lydiard stuff (and modern coaches of the style, like Jay Johnson and others) is they are super into finding those feelings. Don't work too hard to nail a pace or an HR or anything. Just change the paces slowly and be aware of how the changes make you feel. It takes time to learn this stuff, and it takes time for the body to develop the fitness you're after, so don't rush it.

You mentioned earlier doing your runs on a treadmill. That can make it super easy to pick a pace and lock on. Resist that if you can. I haven't run on a treadmill in years, but when I did I would always cover most of the panel with a towel or two. Leave the speed adjuster arrows and incline adjust arrows open, but don't look at the time/paces/distance. Just increase and decrease the paces as needed. And I'd do the same with the incline, just as if you were running outside. Look at your average speed when the session is done, but don't be a slave to a specific pace for the whole run. Just my .02.

Arthur would tell you not to worry about desired heart, enjoy yourself and run by feel. But if that's what you're going to do don't worry about getting into the zone quickly. Just run and let it come up naturally.

This is an interesting approach. I think I will need to experiment with what this pace feels like because I have a problem with running too fast and not knowing how to extrapolate a current pace to how it will feel in the later stages of my run. Great advice though!

Im certainly not a slave to the treadmill pace because I know that it doesn't translate to road running directly and since my mill is so old, it's probably way off calibration wise - which is why HR training is very important for me at this time