Said Aouita with EPO - how fast?

You mean "all the time". But for now we are safe, for the Brits will be sleeping a few more hours.

Yeah, I've got nothing to say about salbutamol/cyclingFroome. Honestly this story does not interest me. Since there seems to be so much interest in predicting what I will say/explain/believe, here is some guidance: - If this defense survives the UCI LADS, UKAD, WADA, and any CAS appeals, then it doesn't matter to me what you say, or what you can or cannot prove.

casual obsever wrote:

"The scientists are aiming to show that rather than excreting the metabolites of salbutamol after it had been processed by his liver, Froome’s kidneys malfunctioned and accumulated them. When his kidneys began to function properly again, they excreted it in the high levels that resulted in the extremely elevated test reading on 7 September."

Soon rekrunner will come and explain that we can't prove that to be nonsense.

Yes I indeed, rekrunner. However, CAS won't get involved here, because Froome is British (same thing with Americans). Proof; Ratcliffe, Wilson, Roberts,....

Examples are not proofs.

If CAS is not involved, it's because all parties are in agreement, and there is no dispute to resolve.

I'm not familiar with "Ratcliffe".

Wilson's "case" did not even need a first arbitration.

I see that Gil Roberts case is being heard by CAS, as WADA exercised its right of appeal:

15 January 2018

CAS 2017/A/5296 World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) v. Gil Roberts

rekrunner wrote:

Examples are not proofs.

If CAS is not involved, it's because all parties are in agreement, and there is no dispute to resolve.

I'm not familiar with "Ratcliffe".

Wilson's "case" did not even need a first arbitration.

I see that Gil Roberts case is being heard by CAS, as WADA exercised its right of appeal:

15 January 2018

CAS 2017/A/5296 World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) v. Gil Roberts

Huh? What's up with this Gary?

calculo wrote:

Diabalo wrote:It was a 52.9 last lap

no

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=POZ1j3vepUo

analysis of clock shows it was 52.7

and he ran 10m wide over the duration of race

no

you can't analyse properly

it was 12m

Of that about 2 m was on penultimate bend.

no

he ran ~ 2.75m on it

That makes it a 52.6 in a 3:28 low at best[/quote]

no

that is a 52.4 in a 3'28-flat

& running wide so much of race he got little of drafting expected

to anyone with a clue about the sport, that means flat-out from gun, drafted to bell, he shouda been looking at

~ 3'26-mid/high

And he had Cram ahead of him dragging every ounce out of his doped up system

utter fuuckin drivel

cram offered no drafting as so far ahead at bell

if Aouita was doping, he wouda stuck to leader whoever it was, from the gun in order not just to win but annihilate the WR

utterly clueless

if you dope, the 1st instruction is that you are immediately behind wabbit/leader at bell in a WR chase

for Aouita to run disastrously to bell indicates no doping

learn some logic...[/quote]

LISTEN TO ME!!!!!

drivel snarf burp fart idiot basic intrinsic

~ 5m wide! suicide first ~ 35m! moron barf gargle slurp

jizz swallow is this a joke basic barf fart gag moron

jizzel drivel slurp fart choke sh*t are you dense?

basic ~ 3'24! jim ryun secret man crush jizz barf intrinsic

is this a joke? my predictions are superior to all others slurp gag drivel

i am vent, i am calculo, i am LR love child of retardo canova and rekrunner! Drivel snarf

barf snurf gag puke moron basic drivel intrinsic joke gargle gurgle idiot

quote myself within a quote within a quote am i serious

is this a joke?

barf fart gasp moron drivel 26 flat basic jizz jim ryun into my mouth rubbish

intrinsic moron myself quote wabbit idiot gargle

buffoon burp slurp swallow gasp choke gag drivel basic

snurf sniffle drivel dribble slurp burp gag barf moron

are you dense?

is this a joke?

utterly clueless

learn something basics

do you not no basic maths?

~5m wide basic 3'24! are you dense

WR!!! under fantasy conditions can you not listen!

idiot moron predictions im wrong always quote myself within a quote drivel

your not as smart slurp as me burp i am vent gag

barf barf moron intrinsic basic joke

i took the liberty to BOLD the most offensive part of utter drivel himself. but yeah ban me for mocking renato and rekrunner.

rekrunner wrote:

I see that Gil Roberts case is being heard by CAS, as WADA exercised its right of appeal:

15 January 2018

CAS 2017/A/5296 World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) v. Gil Roberts

Great news. Let's hope for the best.

But a shame that WADA let Wilson and USADA get away.. .

So a sign of a doper is someone who follows the pacer? Hilarious.

The YouTube link shows that when Aouita’s torso was in line with the finish line at 1100m, the clock was still showing 2:36. The clock doesn’t show tenths, and the time doesn’t switch to 2:37 until he is 1m past the line. This means he must have gone through the bell in 2:36.8, and as his final time is 3:29.71, then it would be 52.9.

He touches the line with lane 2 once on the penultimate bend, the rest of the time he is 30cm from the line. That makes the extra distance nearer 2m than 2.75, which would have required him running practically on the line for the entire bend.

casual obsever wrote:

http://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/racing/chris-froome-reportedly-set-to-argue-that-kidney-problem-caused-adverse-salbutamol-test-365861

"The scientists are aiming to show that rather than excreting the metabolites of salbutamol after it had been processed by his liver, Froome’s kidneys malfunctioned and accumulated them. When his kidneys began to function properly again, they excreted it in the high levels that resulted in the extremely elevated test reading on 7 September."

Soon rekrunner will come and explain that we can't prove that to be nonsense.

Wow, that has to be up there with one of all time BS execuses for flunking a dope test: a TEMPORARY kidney malfunction!! I suppose that team SKY administered Froome a few shots of EPO during this temporary kidney malfunction so at least his serum EPO levels were not impacted by this temporary malfunction. These measures taken by the SKY medical team ensured that Froome was competing with his natural serum EPO levels and was able to breathe at his natural levels with the asthma medication. This is not cheating it just dealing with an athlete's medical ailments in an ethical and honest manner ...

PS don't scientists have more useful stuff to do? Such as finding cures for untreatable diseases etc ...

calculo wrote:

Diabalo wrote:It was a 52.9 last lap

no

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=POZ1j3vepUo

analysis of clock shows it was 52.7

and he ran 10m wide over the duration of race

no

you can't analyse properly

it was 12m

Of that about 2 m was on penultimate bend.

no

he ran ~ 2.75m on it

That makes it a 52.6 in a 3:28 low at best[/quote]

no

that is a 52.4 in a 3'28-flat

& running wide so much of race he got little of drafting expected

to anyone with a clue about the sport, that means flat-out from gun, drafted to bell, he shouda been looking at

~ 3'26-mid/high

And he had Cram ahead of him dragging every ounce out of his doped up system

utter fuuckin drivel

cram offered no drafting as so far ahead at bell

if Aouita was doping, he wouda stuck to leader whoever it was, from the gun in order not just to win but annihilate the WR

utterly clueless

if you dope, the 1st instruction is that you are immediately behind wabbit/leader at bell in a WR chase

for Aouita to run disastrously to bell indicates no doping

learn some logic...[/quote]

You're an utter insane fool. You're an utter fraud. Why you don't admit you haven't a clue about the technical side? You've read lots of biographies and watched many YouTube races. Great. It gives you some really interesting anecdotes to tell and facts to relate. Just leave the crappy psuedo-science analysis out of it.

You're saying Aouita couldn't have been doping because he would have smashed the world record? What kind of argument is that? Maybe he just wasn't that great as his early career as a regular 3:40 man would suggest? The PEDs he started devouring when he moved to Italy helped obviously and turned him into a super athlete but they never could have turned him into a sub 3:29 guy let alond 3:26. Even EPO probably wouldn't have enabled that.

Aouita was blown away by Cram's injection of pace at around the 300 mark. He was also late to react and chose to continue get the drafting behind Gonzalez (so he had far more drafting than Cram who was in front for the last 300) and continue running on the inside rather than move round Gonzalez on the bend. It's not so much that Aouita was kicking and had left it a fraction too late, it was that Cram (and Gonzalez) were tiring in the final 100m. You can see Cram starting to do his tell tale sideways roll of the head which he always did when he couldn't force his body to go faster. Aouita however was also starting to tire and if the finishing line had been even 30 meters further on he might have put more distance between him and Aouita again (as happend with the famous Cram/Ovett showdown at the end of 83). Cram was lacking a little in fitness after missing a bit of training and races with his calf problems. If it hadn't been for that Cram would probably have gone under 3:29, something Aouita was evidently incapable of despite your calculations given the number of WR attempts he had at 1500m.

Cram was not at his best in that race. In the previous week he'd lost to Tom McKean over 800m and then had to pull out of his next race midway when his calves flared up again. Aouita however was very close or at his 1500m best that night, shown by the fact he only shaved 3/10ths of his/Cram's time when he broke the WR with better pacing. Cram was at his best a little later in the season when he ran that magnificent Mile in 3:46 which would have been 3:44 maybe with better pacing. No sign of the head movement from Cram in the home straight there. Also the Gateshead night the same week when he just missed Coe's 1000m WR. If he had been running 1500m in Zurich that night he might have ran 3:27.

0/10 ??

@Calculo - I didn't say he wasn't in awesome shape, I said at his very 85 best (unlike Aouita). Yes he had an amazing run at Oslo earlier in the season which indicated the form he was in, but he was still having calf problems at that point (as he states in the post race interview) and in his very next races they caused him huge problems. I assume they also must have hampered his training at least a little. I don't think he was quite in the same shape in the Nice race as his earlier Oslo race. He looked like he could have gone well under 3:30 that day.

I can't even make sense of your 'utter drivel' statements in the rest of your post. You're losing it completely.

Gosh don't reply to him. All he is doing is being a contrarian, he works out your opinions and then creates an opposite agenda, just to p*ss you off. He used to blabber on here about certain performances with glee, but when they were revealed to be done on 6 lanes tracks he has ceased to mention them. He is like an algorithm but he is far less likeable than TrackBot.

calculo wrote:

What? Is that the same excuse you'll give for Beyer?

rupturing kick-a-ball injury

are you so stoopid, that you think GDR wanted beyer to only perform in prague but not fully in moscow ???

idiot

the expectation musta been after prague to get him into 1'42s in '79 & perhaps even shot of 1'41s in '80

the kick-a-ball injury wrecked huge DDR plan

why can't you think ???

do you not have even sliver of thinking ???

+1

Beyer would have had a great chance of winning the Moscow 800m in 1980 if he had not had to have foot surgery after Prague in 1978. He was younger than Coe and Ovett and looked to have much more development potential at the distance. His victory in Prague was absolutely superb and was almost 2 seconds faster than Ovett's victory in Moscow despite Beyer swinging out into lane 3 (!) to sprint past Coe then Ovett.

Interesting to also consider how Straub's career could have turned out if there was no Eastern Bloc boycott of the 1984 Olympics. Abascal would have been a great rabbit for someone like Straub over the last 800m.

Who cares when he was almost certainly a hardcore doper? Doesn't the fact that he ran under a Marxist government and competed under a state sponsored program, while his coach was convicted in UNIFIED GERMANY of pressurizing 13 year old girls to take illegal drugs mean anything to you? Why do you think East Germany with a population of 15 million came top in Olympic tables ahead of the likes of the USA and even the combined might of the Soviet Union? Did they just have such naturally talented guys like Beyer to a remarkable per head of population?

Also, Beyer had showed nothing aside prior to that race. As far as I know, he finished 3rd in the 1978 GDR championships (before Prague) to Wagennecht and Busse. He ran just under 1:44 behind the Iron Curtain while being paced by Coe and Ovett who were totally unaware of him (as were even likely most East Germans). Aside from that one race we have nothing to base such predictions upon. He was 1 year younger than Coe, who would run 1:42.4 the next year. The fact that doped up Beyer running behind the Iron Curtain could run a shade under 1:44 in ideal conditions does not suggest he would have been better than Coe or Ovett.

You guys constantly claim that whitey is as dopey and likely to cheat as Africans and East Germans, yet it's clear that you don't have any qualms about doping. Maybe it's possible that guys like me and Deano are wrong to assume white runners back then weren't doping, the fact that the defenders of East German dopers and Kenyan cheaters don't have any problems with doping does suggest that there is a difference between cultures here. One thinks doping is not ok, one thinks it is o.k (and assumes everyone dopes).

Uber Alles wrote:

Interesting to also consider how Straub's career could have turned out if there was no Eastern Bloc boycott of the 1984 Olympics. Abascal would have been a great rabbit for someone like Straub over the last 800m.

Or imagine if the Berlin wall had not come down? What could 'East Germans' do in the 1990s with state sponsored EPO? The coach of Beyer, Straub, Herald is still a coach even after being convicted of force feeding 13 year old female athletes illegal drugs that cause heart failure a few years back. Imagine the 'talented' 90's East German runners he'd have at his disposal and could have been feeding EPO to El G levels? The world record could have come down below 3:25. Now we are on the brink of gene doping and whole brave new world. The top East Germans in 2025 might be running the Mile under three minute and the 800m in under 1:35.

It's sad that communism crumbled and that Hoennecker didn't unleash the army in a Tianamman Square style blood bath. Instead of being a depopulated wasteland increasingly being colonized by Merkel's Guests, the GDR would still be here and still out on top of every medal table.

We can only speculate, but I would say that every Olympic Champion and record holder today is a total fraud. Usain Bolt to Bekele should never forget that the only reason they are still champions are record holders is because the great GDR collapsed.

BTW, you moron, Straub was a spent force by the time of LA. Seems hot housing AND extreme doping didn't prolong the careers of East German middle-distance runners very much, at least not the men.

Coevett wrote:

BTW, you moron, Straub was a spent force by the time of LA. Seems hot housing AND extreme doping didn't prolong the careers of East German middle-distance runners very much, at least not the men.

You write like an Infowars journalist. Lets look at what British sports journalist, Pat Butcher (no not the Eastender's character) had to say about Straub's suspected doping and the Stasi files:

"Conventional wisdom has it that Beyer and his colleague Straub were product of the East German state doping program. Beyer's name (THOUGH NOT STRAUB'S) does feature on a Stasi list of doped sportsmen and women which I have acquired from the acknowledged experts in the field Brigitta Berendonk and her husband ..."

Straub was in his prime age (29) for 1984 and definitely the boycott would have impacted his motivation to try and improve on his 1980 silver medal.

You write like one of those old pricks who can't accept that in 1989 Communism was finally and universally shown to be the adolescent stain on humanity that it was. What has Info Wars got to do with anything? Are you saying the fact that East Germany was a Marxist dictatorship and ran a brutal state sponsored doping regime is irrelevant? I'm a conspiracty theorists to think Beyer might have been doping? I mean WTF?

According to Wikipedia Straub would have been 31 in LA. He recorded his pb in 1979. And what on Earth makes you think he could have beaten Coe in LA as a 31 year old and done nothing for years, when he couldn't beat him in 1980 in Moscow?

As far as I know Pat Butcher would not have been aware that Beyer (and Straub's) coach was convicted just a few years ago of pressurizing 13 year old girl athletes under his care to take illegal and potentially lethal drugs in order to 'make them run faster'.

Geipel is one of an estimated 10,000 athletes from the former East Germany who doped.

The state-sponsored doping program was highly organised, and by 1974 it was actually law.

A secret government bill was passed stating that doping substances had to be an integral part of athlete training, and the doping was to be taught to coaches and doctors. Doping was also classified as an official state secret.

In the doping years between the mid '60s and late '80s, the relatively small nation outperformed hugely. From the 1968 Mexico City Olympics to the 1988 Calgary Winter Games, East Germany won more than 500 medals.

It was almost always second in the international medal tally.