Said Aouita with EPO - how fast?

Do your homework wrote:

He was based out of Italy and Spain 9 months of the year. As stated ad nauseum, he had acccess to EVERYTHING.

Well...if you did your homework you would've posted a link or something verifying that he was really in Italy that long. And as far as Spain is concerned? Big deal...it's right across the Strait of Gibraltar (maybe he was interested in the Señoritas or the fine wine over there). Besides, doping didn't get rocking in Spain until the mid-90s when EPO was the hot item with athletics & cycling.

Aouita was arguably the most versatile distance runner ever.

I like Moroccan runners.

Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:

This is correct, blood doping is like the easiest type of doping. Take it out and put it in the fridge. Then put it back in.

Not really Subway. It's not all rainbows & marshmallows - it comes with a lot of risks. Think about the 90s when EPO exploded on the scene of athletics & cycling, so many athletes who wouldn't come near blood doping with a 10 ft pole embraced EPO as the holy grail of PED use. ?

Rocket Fuel Rick wrote:

Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:

This is correct, blood doping is like the easiest type of doping. Take it out and put it in the fridge. Then put it back in.

Not really Subway. It's not all rainbows & marshmallows - it comes with a lot of risks. Think about the 90s when EPO exploded on the scene of athletics & cycling, so many athletes who wouldn't come near blood doping with a 10 ft pole embraced EPO as the holy grail of PED use. ?

https://lifeinthefastlane.com/ccc/blood-transfusion-risks/

Hyperbole Rick, my old friend. But I won't be experimenting with that for my next 5k joggers race ?

Here is Seb Coe speaking about his own insecurities about not being able to make the jump from 1500m to 5000m like Aouita was able to

Said Aouita is known as arguably the most versatile runner ever. Sebastian Coe once said in reference to Aouita:

“Besides winning 800s, he could run a brilliant 1500m and an unbelievable 5000m. In terms of range of distances he’s unsurpassed. The biggest gap is between 1500m and 5000m and he made the jump with sublime indifference”.

Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:

This is correct, blood doping is like the easiest type of doping. Take it out and put it in the fridge. Then put it back in.

Umm...No. First it has to deprecated correctly using a centrifuge. Then, if stored improperly it can kill you. Ask Ricardo Rico. Also if you reinject too much your blood becomes too viscous and you can also died.

Dingler wrote:

Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:

This is correct, blood doping is like the easiest type of doping. Take it out and put it in the fridge. Then put it back in.

Umm...No. First it has to deprecated correctly using a centrifuge. Then, if stored improperly it can kill you. Ask Ricardo Rico. Also if you reinject too much your blood becomes too viscous and you can also died.

He was a brilliant runner. Did he dope? I don't know, no idea. Did he need drugs? No, nobody does, but if people belive they can exceed natural oxygen uptake, which is actually physiologically impossible, then...........well you know the rest.

Cold Hard Truth wrote:

His range was produced entirely by his PED use and only stood out because he was the only guy on the sauce in the 80s.

Love the sarcasm.

I like Moroccan Runners wrote:

Do your homework wrote:

He was based out of Italy and Spain 9 months of the year. As stated ad nauseum, he had acccess to EVERYTHING.

Well...if you did your homework you would've posted a link or something verifying that he was really in Italy that long. And as far as Spain is concerned? Big deal...it's right across the Strait of Gibraltar (maybe he was interested in the Señoritas or the fine wine over there). Besides, doping didn't get rocking in Spain until the mid-90s when EPO was the hot item with athletics & cycling.

Aouita was arguably the most versatile distance runner ever.

I like Moroccan runners.

Huh? Again, do your homework. Know your history. Your homework does not involve me posting links for you to educate yourself. Incidentally, doping was rampant in Spain long before the mid 90's.

Henry Rono was a great runner but the statement of being versatile just isn't accurate. Being as good in Said was in the 800m to the 10k shows more versatility than having a great range in only distance running.

Craig McLachlan wrote:

As we know, as soon as EPO became available, the record came down in ridiculous fashion

Yeah, even Bob Kennedy could run 12:58 when EPO became available.

(not insinuating anything, just pointing out the parallel with the OP's post)

kjlk wrote:

Here is Seb Coe speaking about his own insecurities about not being able to make the jump from 1500m to 5000m like Aouita was able to

Said Aouita is known as arguably the most versatile runner ever. Sebastian Coe once said in reference to Aouita:

“Besides winning 800s, he could run a brilliant 1500m and an unbelievable 5000m. In terms of range of distances he’s unsurpassed. The biggest gap is between 1500m and 5000m and he made the jump with sublime indifference”.

He never tried. And Coe ran over two seconds faster at 800m than Aouita and recorded arguably the greatest middle-distance record of all time doing it. He has two Olympic silver medals in the 800m, a European gold and two world cup victories when they were the equivalent of World Championships. Aouita has one 800m bronze and one 1500 bronze. Aouita made the jump with 'sublime indifference' because he was almost certainly juiced to the gills.

Why does nobody mention Coe's obvious blood doping, associated with intermittent illnesses, in his era? Rather hypocritically, he seems to have a smug condescension towards today's dopers. He was no different.

* wrote:

Craig McLachlan wrote:

As we know, as soon as EPO became available, the record came down in ridiculous fashion

Yeah, even Bob Kennedy could run 12:58 when EPO became available.

(not insinuating anything, just pointing out the parallel with the OP's post)

Oh sure you're not. You just had to throw Bob Kennedy under the bus with that remark. You're the first one I ever heard of on this forum smearing Mr. Kennedy.

Or you can look at it like this - once Geb ran 12:44 it opened a mental block for all runners.

I didn't see Kennedy as an EPO guy but someone who was fit and running hard to keep up in the races.

And the others were now going after faster paces once they saw it could be done.

Kennedy would have been the world record holder if he ran his 12:58 PR two years and three months earlier.

The thing is, he was 5th in that race and the winning time was 12:45. Not likely he would have run 12:58 while leading after a rabbit dropped off.

I'm not throwing BK under the bus.

I'm showing how the entire sport was elevated and it wasn't necessarily all due to EPO.

As for Aouita, he would have run faster than 12:58 if he was in that race, but we don't know how much faster (certainly not 12:45).

And he was juicing in his own way, probably taking drugs that would have failed a 1996 test.

* wrote:

Craig McLachlan wrote:

As we know, as soon as EPO became available, the record came down in ridiculous fashion

Yeah, even Bob Kennedy could run 12:58 when EPO became available.

(not insinuating anything, just pointing out the parallel with the OP's post)

Why is it suspicious that one or two white guys could run barely under 13 minutes in the 90s? David Moorcroft would have ran at least 12:55 if his WR had been paced in the 1980s. The best white 5K runners should have been running 12:50 by the 90s. (clean). The fact is white runners have actually underperformed because they had less motivation competing against hordes of African EPO cheats.

From Aouita's wikipedia -

After his athletics career ended, Aouita worked with mixed success as a consultant for numerous sport institutions, as Technical National Manager in Morocco, and National Distance Coach in Australia thanks not only to his fruitful field experience, but also to his academic competences.

LOL! Aouita famously lied to get that job, claiming among other things that he had been the coach of El G and turned him into a talent into a 3:26:00 phenonm. 'Mixed Success' - LOL! Chased out of the country because numerous athletes were accusing him of pressurizing them into taking PEDs.

I would guess 12-50 for 5000m like his compatriots later achieved

3-27 low for 1500

He was probably already on most stuff available at the time

Coevett wrote:

The fact is white runners have actually underperformed because they had less motivation competing against hordes of African EPO cheats.

"Hordes" of African EPO cheats? There's plenty of hard working & dedicated Africans who weren't "EPO cheats." You're stereotyping and categorizing most Africans as cheats. It would be like me saying England has nothing but hordes of arrogant, pompous & imperious people (maybe it does after all with the ideology of the "British Empire" ?).

It seems like in almost every post of yours, you do nothing but throw cheapshots at the Africans. But yet if someone criticizes your "holier than thou" boys of GB, you go ballistic on them. So what - your boys were clean as a whistle...okay great. ? But why do you keep picking on all African runners? Did you race and get beaten by them at one time? I've never seen so many inflammatory remarks toward one ethnic group.

* wrote:

Craig McLachlan wrote:

As we know, as soon as EPO became available, the record came down in ridiculous fashion

Yeah, even Bob Kennedy could run 12:58 when EPO became available.

(not insinuating anything, just pointing out the parallel with the OP's post)

EPO was bloody brilliant, worth 25-30s back in the limitless days.