This explains a lot...
He is BACK and better than ever, Lagat's 3:29.30 1500 record is in trouble.
Libertarian vegan wrote:
This explains a lot...
Libertarian vegan:
You know I respect your opinion. Perhaps writing is not your forte' and you find it hard to express yourself? Is it that you have some secrets that the rest of us do not have? I like to think that you are not that type of person.
Here is what I think of the workout.
It certainly shows what kind of anaerobic condition Webb got into. Webb was also one blessed with great speed so a workout like that also is easier for him than we might think.
Recently someone posted a great New Zealand/Lydiard video where John Walker commented that he ran one interval workout per week with reps at 1200 meters. The first week he ran them in 3:45.
This is 5 minute mile pace, which was slow for Walker who had a best of 3:49 for the mile.
One thing many do not know and I did not discover until I had coached for a few years, all those paces we see by the world class are not what everyone should do!!!
So the 3:45 1200s translate to about 4:28 for a someone with a 4:59 mile best. 4:28 for 1200 is about 5:57 mile pace. So yes Lydiard runners did interval training but they kept it mostly aerobic. For many reading this, running 4 x1200 meters at 5:57 pace with a 400 jog is not hard interval training. (However if this is done on grass or with hills it might be! You may have to adjust the pace for those situations.)
Webb must have done a lot before he ran that workout, including I bet lots of long runs. (He was not a Lydiard 22 miler type of guy though. He did not need to be.) What we want is relaxed fast running, not gut-bustiest-clench-fisty stuff!
I observed a top hs coach have his kids run 3 x mile at their current 5K pace. They took their heart rate after each one. It had to be down to 120 before they could go again. This is aerobic conditioning and is sensible training.
Not as hard as it looks.
It was 5 x (4 x 400) going from about 3k pace (60.xx per lap) down to mile pace in the last couple sets (with the very last rep a tick faster than 800 pace), all with rests gradually going from 1:00 to 2:00 (and longer between sets).
I think many mortals can do 20 x 400 at 3k down to 1500 pace with 1:00-2:00 rest (plus longer rests between sets). It's not a day at the park, but I've heard of more grueling workouts.
For someone running 4:00 in the 1500 and 8:35 in the 3000 (64 and 68.xx pace, respectively) - that workout would look something like this:
69, 69, 69, 66 (1:00 rest)
68, 68, 67, 66 (1:00 rest)
66, 66, 65, 64 (1:30 rest)
65, 65, 64, 64 (1:45 rest)
64, 64, 63, 58 (2:00 rest)
waltertompatton wrote:
It certainly shows what kind of anaerobic condition Webb got into.
What does 20x400m have to do with anaerobic conditioning?
Are you referring to what Walker said on Dick Quax's coaching video from the 1980s? I think Walker said that he slowly reduces the rest period between reps.
Libertarian vegan wrote:
This explains a lot...
Yes. It explains literary why he run himself down in training.
Coacherman wrote:
For someone running 4:00 in the 1500 and 8:35 in the 3000 (64 and 68.xx pace, respectively) - that workout would look something like this:
69, 69, 69, 66 (1:00 rest)
68, 68, 67, 66 (1:00 rest)
66, 66, 65, 64 (1:30 rest)
65, 65, 64, 64 (1:45 rest)
64, 64, 63, 58 (2:00 rest)
What is it with people on this site thinking 20 x 400m is wonderful?
It is better to do some kilometer reps followed up with shorter reps.
If I was Alan Webb's coach I would've had him do:
6 x 1k @ 10k pace with 2 min rest + 5 x 400 with 1 min rest
Crazy coaching wrote:
Libertarian vegan wrote:
This explains a lot...
Yes. It explains literary why he run himself down in training.
+1
He over trained and this is why he never won any championships.
Libertarian vegan wrote:
Coacherman wrote:
For someone running 4:00 in the 1500 and 8:35 in the 3000 (64 and 68.xx pace, respectively) - that workout would look something like this:
69, 69, 69, 66 (1:00 rest)
68, 68, 67, 66 (1:00 rest)
66, 66, 65, 64 (1:30 rest)
65, 65, 64, 64 (1:45 rest)
64, 64, 63, 58 (2:00 rest)
What is it with people on this site thinking 20 x 400m is wonderful?
It is better to do some kilometer reps followed up with shorter reps.
If I was Alan Webb's coach I would've had him do:
6 x 1k @ 10k pace with 2 min rest + 5 x 400 with 1 min rest
That is an interesting opinion. Please back it up with some facts. Perhaps physiological tests on athletes after doing both workouts, or even better, athletes who switched from approach to the other, and their subsequent performances. Until then, you have only expressed an opinion devoid of any substance.
@lib veg wrote:
Libertarian vegan wrote:
What is it with people on this site thinking 20 x 400m is wonderful?
It is better to do some kilometer reps followed up with shorter reps.
If I was Alan Webb's coach I would've had him do:
6 x 1k @ 10k pace with 2 min rest + 5 x 400 with 1 min rest
That is an interesting opinion. Please back it up with some facts. Perhaps physiological tests on athletes after doing both workouts, or even better, athletes who switched from approach to the other, and their subsequent performances. Until then, you have only expressed an opinion devoid of any substance.
No, he’s correct.
Coacherman wrote:
For someone running 4:00 in the 1500 and 8:35 in the 3000 (64 and 68.xx pace, respectively) - that workout would look something like this:
69, 69, 69, 66 (1:00 rest)
68, 68, 67, 66 (1:00 rest)
66, 66, 65, 64 (1:30 rest)
65, 65, 64, 64 (1:45 rest)
64, 64, 63, 58 (2:00 rest)
I was in ~4:00 1500m shape last Summer and could not even do half of that workout.
like the 1000s better wrote:
@lib veg wrote:
That is an interesting opinion. Please back it up with some facts. Perhaps physiological tests on athletes after doing both workouts, or even better, athletes who switched from approach to the other, and their subsequent performances. Until then, you have only expressed an opinion devoid of any substance.
No, he’s correct.
OK, thanks for clearing that up.
He could have probably ran a 3:46 mile with that fitness.
Libertarian vegan wrote:
Coacherman wrote:
For someone running 4:00 in the 1500 and 8:35 in the 3000 (64 and 68.xx pace, respectively) - that workout would look something like this:
69, 69, 69, 66 (1:00 rest)
68, 68, 67, 66 (1:00 rest)
66, 66, 65, 64 (1:30 rest)
65, 65, 64, 64 (1:45 rest)
64, 64, 63, 58 (2:00 rest)
What is it with people on this site thinking 20 x 400m is wonderful?
It is better to do some kilometer reps followed up with shorter reps.
If I was Alan Webb's coach I would've had him do:
6 x 1k @ 10k pace with 2 min rest + 5 x 400 with 1 min rest
Lucky Alan you did not coach him. LoL
Libertarian vegan wrote:
Crazy coaching wrote:
Yes. It explains literary why he run himself down in training.
+1
He over trained and this is why he never won any championships.
Didn’t he win 3 national championships, a diamond league race, and break two American records?
Libertarian vegan wrote:
He over trained and this is why he never won any championships.
If that's overtraining, I wish more professional runners would overtrain so we could see records instead of times that are slower than high school boys (e.g. Rio 1500m)
Libertarian vegan wrote:
Coacherman wrote:
For someone running 4:00 in the 1500 and 8:35 in the 3000 (64 and 68.xx pace, respectively) - that workout would look something like this:
69, 69, 69, 66 (1:00 rest)
68, 68, 67, 66 (1:00 rest)
66, 66, 65, 64 (1:30 rest)
65, 65, 64, 64 (1:45 rest)
64, 64, 63, 58 (2:00 rest)
What is it with people on this site thinking 20 x 400m is wonderful?
It is better to do some kilometer reps followed up with shorter reps.
If I was Alan Webb's coach I would've had him do:
6 x 1k @ 10k pace with 2 min rest + 5 x 400 with 1 min rest
And you have coached how many American Record Holders?