Track session vs Hill reps

I would imagine hill sprints. I love hills but also they're lower impact, which is important when you take into high intensity training increases your injury risk. From my experience 400m repeats did nothing for my 5k preparation. They're too short. I'm in 16:15 shape and I like doing fartleks of 2:00 at 5k-10k pace followed by 1:00 rest at 7 min pace. If the fast segments are near 5k pace, I can usually only do this workout for 6-6.5 miles. If the fast segments are closer to 10k pace, I'll do 10-11 miles. With the rest being 7 min pace, the recovery is not that much of a recovery, so you're learning to run with a consistently high heart rate. Short 400m repeats don't get your HR up that high and then the rest makes you nearly fresh. Not a good race simulation.

Hills. Hard up, easy down. No stopping at the top.

My favourite hill session is on a c. 300m road hill that is fairly steep and doing 8 - 12 repeats.

Track reps are ok but I would recommend saving the track for either 1) running faster than 5k pace (i.e. 800/1500 sessions), or; 2) longer repeats at 5k pace (k's, miles, etc) where the laps give you a good indication of pace.

For what it's worth, I ran my best 5K (so far) off eight weeks of base training with lots of longer runs and runs finishing with a hard 2 or 3 miles, with occasional light sessions at 10k(ish) pace on grass playing fields.

Hills for sure, like cici and True Brit wrote. They pretty much covered it.

Cici wrote:

I would imagine hill sprints. I love hills but also they're lower impact, which is important when you take into high intensity training increases your injury risk. From my experience 400m repeats did nothing for my 5k preparation. They're too short. I'm in 16:15 shape and I like doing fartleks of 2:00 at 5k-10k pace followed by 1:00 rest at 7 min pace. If the fast segments are near 5k pace, I can usually only do this workout for 6-6.5 miles. If the fast segments are closer to 10k pace, I'll do 10-11 miles. With the rest being 7 min pace, the recovery is not that much of a recovery, so you're learning to run with a consistently high heart rate. Short 400m repeats don't get your HR up that high and then the rest makes you nearly fresh. Not a good race simulation.

Why not both hill reps and track repeats. I do not agree with you on 400m repeats being too short maybe your rest is too long. Example 16x400 with 200m jog rest. Workouts like this done properly I would say are very good for a 5k runner.

true brit wrote:

Hills. Hard up, easy down. No stopping at the top.

A little secret... why dont you also run hard the down segment and rest at the bottom... you learn to flush lactate at speed and besides when you race you dont have the luxury to slow down when you get to the top.... that's where races usually get lost....

westsouthrunner wrote:

Why not both hill reps and track repeats. I do not agree with you on 400m repeats being too short maybe your rest is too long. Example 16x400 with 200m jog rest. Workouts like this done properly I would say are very good for a 5k runner.

You mean 20/25 x 400m with 30" off or 100m jog.... that rest of yours is useless if that workout if is for a 5k.

In general terms you get to run nowhere near the 400m rep pace when you run a 5k... so why do people keep hammering that workout like the main staple of a 5k is beyond me. It make sense if you do quarters with shuttle (hard) recoveries, like in "marathon pace" 200m recoveries.... but then you wont be able to run nowhere that fast during the rep....

Try to do longer reps like 1000m with 45" rest, 1200m with 60" or 1600m with 90" then we are talking getting the best 5k out that you can....

Non specific lactate work like hill circuits and hill reps don’t erode your aerobic conditioning as much as track work. They’re a good transition to the race pace/peaking workouts.

Short hill sprints are great early season for stimulating the central nervous system and strengthening... later in the season just do a periodic maintenance session.

Much of the value of the workouts you’re asking about come from putting them in a periodized/progressive training plan.

Best to combine them both. For example,

after doing some kilometres/mile reps or a tempo run do some 200 to 400m hill reps.

Example of workouts:

1. 1k x 5 + 6 x 300m up hill (best to do on a grassy hill instead of concrete)

2. 1/2 mile up hill x 6 + 8 x 200m on the track or grassy field

3. 20 min tempo + 4 x 400m up hill + 4x200m/300m on the track or grassy field

KAV wrote:

true brit wrote:

Hills. Hard up, easy down. No stopping at the top.

A little secret... why dont you also run hard the down segment and rest at the bottom... you learn to flush lactate at speed and besides when you race you dont have the luxury to slow down when you get to the top.... that's where races usually get lost....

What did your knees do to you to hate them so much? Unless the hill is

2-3% or under this is a great way to get injured

Edit: Letsrun why you delete half my comment

Cici wrote:

I would imagine hill sprints. I love hills but also they're lower impact, which is important when you take into high intensity training increases your injury risk. From my experience 400m repeats did nothing for my 5k preparation. They're too short. I'm in 16:15 shape and I like doing fartleks of 2:00 at 5k-10k pace followed by 1:00 rest at 7 min pace. If the fast segments are near 5k pace, I can usually only do this workout for 6-6.5 miles. If the fast segments are closer to 10k pace, I'll do 10-11 miles. With the rest being 7 min pace, the recovery is not that much of a recovery, so you're learning to run with a consistently high heart rate. Short 400m repeats don't get your HR up that high and then the rest makes you nearly fresh. Not a good race simulation.

I don't think you NEED hill work---but I used to do 4 X 400 with 400 jog in between and close out progressive runs real hard. This was during a time when I was only running 45MPW versus 100+. I did not have the time to do any more. It served me well but if you think 400's are too short, then do 4 X 600, 600 jog or 4 X 800, 800 jog.

Close the last mile or two of a couple of your distance runs close to your 5K-5Mile race pace if you can. If you do 2.5 or 3 tough workouts per week, you will see improvement and/or make the most of the lack of a long distance base. I ran my Marathon PR (2:23:3X ) in NY using this strategy. It might or might not work for everybody but it did for me.

If you close a progressive distance run at 5K pace that can be your third hard day on the alternate week or of each week. I discovered I can race well at 45-50 MPW (only when I could not do 100+ MPW) if my metabolism co operated and it did.

I was younger though but I think 37 is young enough.

One theory I had for the success was that I was well rested!!

KAV wrote:

true brit wrote:

Hills. Hard up, easy down. No stopping at the top.

A little secret... why dont you also run hard the down segment and rest at the bottom... you learn to flush lactate at speed and besides when you race you dont have the luxury to slow down when you get to the top.... that's where races usually get lost....

What, if you run hard down you are still producing lactate. You don't flush lactate when running fast.

Definitely 400m track reps at 5k race pace. Why? They are more suited to the real race if at track or a flat course.

Even my best XC runners seldom do hill reps.