Am I hammering too hard on my long runs?

No, and that's not a long run. A long run is a minimum of 90 min in length.

My post got cut off because I used the less than symbol, should read 70 min at sub 7 pace (feeling dead at the end). I do not plan on getting up to 90 mins for quite a while (think in ~2-2 1/2 years in college) but getting in quality at a lower mileage

Canova likely would suggest that you work up to hammering your long runs, if you're training for a marathon. You are training for a mile. Slow your long runs down and let the duration of the run supply the quality. Much more useful for you are steady-hard 4 mile runs (plus easy before and after).

How's it working for you?

If your fitness is improving, your training is consistent and no injuries, then it is working FOR YOU.

If your fitness is not improving, your training is not consistent and/or you are in the early stages of an injury, then it is not workin FOR YOU.

And remember, Canova never sets sessions on particular days (I.e 3 sessions per week). Rather, he sets key workouts for the athlete, and the athlete completes the key workouts when the athlete is ready for them.

I think your workout is fine. Basically, you're doing a 10-mile run at just slightly faster than Daniels's Easy pace (7:02-7:29/mile for a 4:54 mile). So instead of adding stimulus by progressing distance, you're adding stimulus by adding stuff, as Magness calls it. In your case, upping the pace or surging at the end. For a HS miler in December, it sounds like a decent workout that's giving you a good aerobic stimulus. Just make sure to treat this run as a workout that needs a recovery day, and be ready to back off and take it at an easy pace if necessary when more specific track workouts start.

If you haven't had injury issues, I think you're OK to add a bit of mileage right now. You can also vary the stimulus for this workout a bit. Instead of a continuous pace, you can try adding, say, 6 x 0:30 surges in the second half, or finishing faster the last 5-10 minutes. You should also try running easier but longer every so often. Vary the stimulus a bit.

Libertarian vegan wrote:

No, and that's not a long run. A long run is a minimum of 90 min in length.

You're a D ICK, the guy is asking for advice in a sincere way and is in 10th grade. A "long run" is the longest run of your week. Can you NOT remember what it was like just starting to run in 10th grade and being excited about it?

Sounds like you did a 4:54 two months ago, and are gunning for 4:39. I think that is reasonable for this year. I don't know what you mean by "other two weekly workouts" but here is what I would recommend.

-Try to run MORE instead of faster. Plenty of time to run HARD in the Spring with intervals.

-Most guys are so impatient to run faster (including this guy) that they PUSH in training so hard that they get stale over the 12 or so weeks of Winter.

- you don't need to run faster than HARD-run pace or Fartlek-surge pace for all of 12 weeks of winter. Don't pay attention to Canova-style training. Those guys are on all kinds of drugs and whatever training they did would result in being fast. You will make yourself crazy if you compare yourself with WR steeplers, and WR-level half-marathoners and marathoners.

-Just enjoy HS and THIS YEAR while it is happening, you will be 20 and 25 and 30 and old for long enough and can worry about Canova-style training THEN.

Try something like this:

M: 5 miles easy; 6 X 100-150m strides; weights (if you like to do them)

T: 7-8 miles moderate or hard

W: 5 miles easy; weights

Th: 7-8 miles moderate or hard; 6 X 100-150m strides

F: OFF, do sports outside, or basketball with your friends, skating, skiing, swimming, whatever you LIKE doing. weights. Go to the HS Basketball Game or out with your friends.

S: 70 min run at easy pace. Whatever that is, it will get better over the months, 7:15->7:00->6:45

Su: 5 miles easy

This makes about 41 miles.

This means three days EASY and short running and ONE day off and TWO days MOD and ONE day long. It is not a magic formula, but should give you enough base to do a 4:39.

Once track starts around March 1st, you can start intervals.

The Overexplainer wrote:

Libertarian vegan wrote:

No, and that's not a long run. A long run is a minimum of 90 min in length.

You're a D ICK, the guy is asking for advice in a sincere way and is in 10th grade. A "long run" is the longest run of your week. Can you NOT remember what it was like just starting to run in 10th grade and being excited about it?

Actually I CAN remember it. And I ran a marathon in March of my sophomore year. Under 3:00, which is to say as fast or faster than OP runs his medium length runs.

Just so OP doesn't misunderstand, I think he's doing the right thing. I like it. Keep it up! I'm just saying I also agree the poster that it's not all that long....

Libertarian vegan wrote:

No, and that's not a long run. A long run is a minimum of 90 min in length.

You may very well be improving fast! But that does not matter at all. Will you be ready to run fast ON THE DAY. Train to race do not race to race!

In addition your mile time is way better than your cc time. Ease into what you are doing.

Contrary to popular belief it may be wise to go 30-30-35-25-35-30-40-30-35-40-45-35-30 etc., rather than improving your mileage at a very fast rate. It depends on how you are recovering and do not increase intensity while you are increasing mileage.

How can you tell if you are overtraining?

Physical Signs include:

Sleeping patters~~~Not enough or too much

Bowel movements~~~constipation or diarrhea

Hungry all the time or lack of appetite

Pain in joints

Headaches

Stale (Not wanting to run other than the weather being lousy)

Sick!

Lots of people say "He cannot run that many miles or he'll break down." But it's not just the miles

it's how you do them. You may need more recovery days, or less than someone else.

There are so many variables. Talk to your coach, Read, watch videos, etc.

Arthur Lydiard had it right but he is also the most misquoted distance coach on the internet.

Libertarian vegan wrote:

No, and that's not a long run. A long run is a minimum of 90 min in length.

Early preparation phase

Day one: *90 minute run

Day two: recovery run

Day three: warmup jog; *5 x 70 @ 85%; warmdown jog

Day four: recovery run

Day five: *tempo run

Day six: recovery run

Day seven: Fartlek (*8 x 200 over 5 miles at first)

Day eight: recovery run

Day nine: recovery run or day off

*The above is just a beginner's guide but there is enough recovery for most people yet it gives

you the opportunity to hit some important variables. For some this schedule would be way to tough.

waltertompatton wrote:

Libertarian vegan wrote:

No, and that's not a long run. A long run is a minimum of 90 min in length.

Early preparation phase

Day one: *90 minute run

Day two: recovery run

Day three: warmup jog; *5 x 70 @ 85%; warmdown jog

Day four: recovery run

Day five: *tempo run

Day six: recovery run

Day seven: Fartlek (*8 x 200 over 5 miles at first)

Day eight: recovery run

Day nine: recovery run or day off

*The above is just a beginner's guide but there is enough recovery for most people yet it gives

you the opportunity to hit some important variables. For some this schedule would be way to tough.

If I was coaching a high school kid for the off-season I would emphasize the easy runs more than anything else at first. As one adapts those easy runs are still easy but they are faster due to improved aerobic capacity. That gets you ready for the real work in the coming phases.

Patience, Knowledge, Progression, Consistency, Recovery. Do not be greedy. You ran a 2:00 800 in December? Great, so have hundreds of other high school kids. The question is~is CAN you do it on the day when it matters? late May-June for high school kids.

Thank you for the excellent advice everyone. Basically what the consensus I'm getting is to build more of a base and hammer later near spring. I do not want to get stale but I did not know that hammering long runs could do that, I thought it was mostly taking easy days hard and doing all out intervals. I'm gonna take it easier for the next couple of weeks with lots of steady-state 7-8 milers.

M- 40 easy, strides

T- 55 steady, max speed (alactic sprints or 10" hill sprints)

W- cruise intervals

T-40-45 easy, strides

F-hill workout

S-off (usually basketball)

S-70-75 steady with a couple of pickups in the middle

I should have been doing this from the beginning, but since I have been "going hard" for the last three weeks, should I just carry that through for the rest of the winter or just reset now? I feel like that would be awkward to switch from harder to easier early in my base phase

You've almost got it. Just take out the word "hammering." Seriously. Hammer your races, don't hammer in training. That is kind of what everyone is telling you to do. Run more miles, do most of them easy, sometimes go a little faster, but only sometimes! And extend that long run out by time while keeping it mostly easy. Don't become overly concerned with which days must be "steady" or not, do those days by feel. Your practice will be much more structured come spring, and you'll look back fondly on your awesome winter base time when you could just go by feel.

Thank you. Yes, push the envelope, don't break it. I got a little eager because I've been feeling really good the last couple of weeks. Do you think I coupe have burned myself out with three weeks of hammering workouts hard? If I "rebuild" my base from now until the end of February and then start the intervals would that work? Also, should I just do only easy mileage and no workouts whatsoever for like a month or just back off on them and continue doing what I'm doing?

2020420 wrote:

Thank you. Yes, push the envelope, don't break it. I got a little eager because I've been feeling really good the last couple of weeks. Do you think I coupe have burned myself out with three weeks of hammering workouts hard? If I "rebuild" my base from now until the end of February and then start the intervals would that work? Also, should I just do only easy mileage and no workouts whatsoever for like a month or just back off on them and continue doing what I'm doing?

You're young, you're feeling good and fit, so no, going a bit hard for a few weeks won't hurt you. If you step back on intensity and recover, you will most likely even find yourself feeling better in a couple of weeks than you did just recently.

There are so many approaches to base building, and lots of them are right. For me, I like to pile on as many easy miles as possible. Twice a week I'll do 8 to 10 strides towards the end of a short or medium length run, full recovery in between. About once every 7 to 10 days I like to get either a tempo-ish effort in, a progression run, or maybe a fartlek. Those come up organically for me. Once day I'll be feeling good and just go with the flow. Once that happens I make sure I keep the next 5-6 days easy no matter what, and then wait for that fast feeling to strike me again and then do another unstructured workout. I'm OK with that workout occasionally (but nowhere close to every week) popping up on a 90+ minute long run day.