Moen's long repeats in prep for Fukuoka

The long recoveries are bumping up the volume. Hopefully this make the workout more pace specific, if it doesn't make you too tired that is. So the pace has to be right.

voluminous wrote:

The long recoveries are bumping up the volume. Hopefully this make the workout more pace specific, if it doesn't make you too tired that is. So the pace has to be right.

At second glance, it looks like the fast 2K's were run just a little slower than marathon pace(about 5 min per mile) with rests that were not slow(about 5:36 per mile pace). I suppose the 2K's could be called controlled surges rather than M or T pace repeats.

Bomba training.

Way, way back AlSal alternated 4:39 and 5 minute miles. You can say this type of training has been around for 40 years.

fred wrote:

You can say this type of training has been around for 40 years.

well gee, thanks fred.

It’s pace variation work. It teaches the body to recover and remove metabolic waste even at a relatively quick pace.

Don't try to equate Renato to Daniels. He spits in the face of a training zone model (with good reason). Us westerners have been held back by it.

Moen question wrote:

voluminous wrote:

The long recoveries are bumping up the volume. Hopefully this make the workout more pace specific, if it doesn't make you too tired that is. So the pace has to be right.

At second glance, it looks like the fast 2K's were run just a little slower than marathon pace(about 5 min per mile) with rests that were not slow(about 5:36 per mile pace). I suppose the 2K's could be called controlled surges rather than M or T pace repeats.

Standard Canova training.

All at about 7,000 feet altitude don't forget.

Moen question wrote:

I noticed on the thread showing some of Moen's training that he did 2000 meter repeats with 1000 rests on a relatively long run which is much different than the Jack Daniels philosophy of very short rests between segments in a long marathon pace/tempo session.

Are the full recovery periods common for this type of workout. Anyone care to provide some example workouts that produced significant improvements in the next marathon?

Something important to remember:

Jack Daniels never ran or coached anyone to a marathon as fast as Moen

Daniels is so over-rated. It blows my mind you guys use that training.

Moen question wrote:

voluminous wrote:

The long recoveries are bumping up the volume. Hopefully this make the workout more pace specific, if it doesn't make you too tired that is. So the pace has to be right.

At second glance, it looks like the fast 2K's were run just a little slower than marathon pace(about 5 min per mile) with rests that were not slow(about 5:36 per mile pace). I suppose the 2K's could be called controlled surges rather than M or T pace repeats.

Know a 2:14 guy who does same workout, and splits. He even does 4,3,2,1 (miles w/ 1 rest recovery) at those paces

Didn't malmo run 5*5 min hard with 5 medium/float between back in the day?

yyy wrote:

Didn't malmo run 5*5 min hard with 5 medium/float between back in the day?

Yeah. But it way back in the MF day! Just kidding. Alternation workouts are nothing new. The volume of Canova's session just is higher than usual (e.g. Malmo would do 60 minutes and not that often. Moen does 60+ minutes regularly).

Daniels fail wrote:

Jack Daniels never ran or coached anyone to a marathon as fast as Moen

This.

Moen question wrote:

I noticed on the thread showing some of Moen's training that he did 2000 meter repeats with 1000 rests on a relatively long run which is much different than the Jack Daniels philosophy of very short rests between segments in a long marathon pace/tempo session.

Are the full recovery periods common for this type of workout. Anyone care to provide some example workouts that produced significant improvements in the next marathon?

First off, as someone said, do not compare DAniels to Canova! Daniels is not near Canova coaching wise. About the run, during a marathon build up Canova often uses fast long runs with variations, for example 4x5 km, 7x3 km, etc, at marathon pace with 1 km moderate. So think of the (2 km on, 1 km moderate) as a continuous run with speed variations. This training allowed Moen to keep the pace high after the surge after 33 km (?) in Fukuoka, and not having to slow down. He explains it very well here:

Moen question wrote:

Are the full recovery periods common for this type of workout. Anyone care to provide some example workouts that produced significant improvements in the next marathon?

My goals are amateurish in comparison, but this was a type of workout that I incorporated in my Fall 2017 marathon. I did this type of workout a few times in the last few weeks leading up to goal race.

6 miles steady (6:30avg)

5 x 2 miles (5:30avg), 1 mile rest (6:30) in between

1 mile easy

This would be done as a continuous 22 mile run on the roads. The goal (with long recovery) was to incorporate quality miles throughout the entire duration of the workout. I felt it was one adjustment that helped take my PR from 2:33 to 2:28.

back in the day wrote:

yyy wrote:

Didn't malmo run 5*5 min hard with 5 medium/float between back in the day?

Yeah. But it way back in the day! Just kidding. Alternation workouts are nothing new. The volume of Canova's session just is higher than usual (e.g. Malmo would do 60 minutes and not that often. Moen does 60+ minutes regularly).

That's false. I would do 70-80 minutes of repeats between 5 and 10 minutes regularly.

what about the rest/float?

yyy wrote:

what about the rest/float?

mikey wrote:

This question is directed at Malmo, though others can feel free to answer.

Awhile back I read that one of his favorite workouts for a half marathon was 5 mins. hard 5 mins. easy for maybe an hour or so. I'm curious what effort he would recommend running the 5 min. hard parts, in additon to the 5 min. easy parts? Im a 1:13 Half marathoner iof that helps with weekly mileage around 70-80 mpw.

I ask because I like that this workout seems very time efficient, something Im always looking for. Just get out on the roads for an hour and back home - this helps me maintain marital bliss.