71 year old sets mile record, and only runs once every three days.

fred wrote:

There aren't any secrets, Fisky.

There's just genetic talent and drugs.

Longevity is a big factor but WEAR and TEAR is a big part of the aging process.

As far as drugs go well next time I see Gary which will be at the starting line I will ask him if he is cheating;)

Charlie wrote:

fred wrote:

There aren't any secrets, Fisky.

There's just genetic talent and drugs.

Longevity is a big factor but WEAR and TEAR is a big part of the aging process.

As far as drugs go well next time I see Gary which will be at the starting line I will ask him if he is cheating;)

And do you think that the seniors using performance enhancing drugs are going to admit to anything.

fred wrote:

And do you think that the seniors using performance enhancing drugs are going to admit to anything.

I've met a few cats over the years in our masters club that have eagerly said they were using testosterone replacement therapy through a low-T clinic (one cat even gave me a business card to the low-T center he was going to!). These cats, though, compete mostly in lower tier local 5k/10k charity-type races where the top 3 of each age group gets a cheap ribbon and maybe a cup of Gatorade. There was even one former member of our club who was known around the gym circles as "Mr. T." ? Of course if there is any testing at these lower tier gigs or any OOC testing, these cats probably wouldn't be doing TRT without a TUE.

Calculo. wrote:

Would have caught him at the finish if he had used starting blocks.

The extra weight would have slowed him down.

to the gills fred, to the gills...

fred wrote:

A drug that mimics the effect of endurance training could help athletes as well as those unable to exercise due to health problems.

However it causes you to have a dinky nickname and to act like a delusional fool on running websites.

Ponce de Leon wrote:

fisky wrote:

Knowledge of master's training has improved. Athletes like Patton are sharing their training plans and other runners are benefiting from their success. Two years ago, I asked a former world champion for his secrets to 400m training. After following his plan, I beat him this past summer in the 400. He was happy for me... what a great guy!

.

Care to share?

Fisky, would love to hear some of the training tips.

Fred, no doubt there are fast masters doping and no doubt there are fast masters not doping. I'm in the latter category.

NO excuse not to add weights in to the programme! even more so as we age!

http://master-athlete.com/news/men-in-their-fifties-recover-just-as-quickly-from-strength-training-as-men-in-their-twenties/

Can't even remember what this thread is about but yeah that post wins the internet for today. If he was in WW2 they'd call him spitfire.

So, I am looking at this story about Gary Patton because running almost everyday isn't working.

It looks like he is reporting that he does strength work every morning 7 days a week , plus a strength workout every third PM and hard x-training and hard running workouts every 3rd day? What's the periodization? Pretty much nobody strength trains the same muscle groups day after day, especially with hard cardio or strength workouts every afternoon. It seems like the "strength" would have to be so light ? Reps and weight for squats etc? If it's light enough to recovery and sustain, how is it the key to running WR paces?

I wished RW would have dug a little deeper into what this man does. I remember another article they did about him and it was the same way, very light on specifics with regards to cycles and whatnot. It did say he trained hard everyday, but it was o.k. because it was it was cross training heavy and weight machines. I personally don't get that. When most people workout hard everyday , LT area or harder everyday, as was intimated in the older article, they burnout, regardless of what they are rotating for the exercise sessions.

I'd like to believe that what he is doing is a good program for an old men, but it doesn't seem like it.

Anybody else 60's and 70's hammering it almost everyday and getting good results? No easy days?

Bobaloo wrote:

color me impressed wrote:

. . . has always only ran twice a week . . .

Correct: has only RUN twice.

This forum contains most of the world's English-language communication between running experts, and it has long since settled on the sensible evolutionary step of doing away with the pointless irregularity in the present-perfect of "run," and using the preterite as the participle as with most verbs.

Those who insist the irregular way is still "correct" grammar have got it backwards. It's the common usage, but specialized usage among actual runners has adopted the preterite. Most people say a tomato is a vegetable; are scientists wrong for saying it's a fruit? On the contrary, they're the ones who do the annoying "correcting." Likewise, runners are the authority for developing the language of running.

Teachers will actually thank us for this, because it's one less exception they have to teach people. Has ran.

I'm in my late 50s and workout everyday but far "hammering it." With osteoarthritis I can barely run anymore (3 days a week/15 mpw), therefore, most of my training is cycling and weights.

I've seen guys like him in at the masters running club I belong to and middle-aged gym rats at the gym I work out at. The hardcore middle-agers in the running club have great anti-aging genetics - so I wouldn't get too excited. Patton even says in the article "to get to 72" and still be running you're "extremely lucky." Translation: lucky = great genetics.

Some of the middle-aged gym rats I see at gym who train like 25 yr old athletes are using testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) or human growth hormone (HGH). Many have told me so and some have even given out business cards from the low-T centers they utilize (they make no bones about it). Some of these TRT guys also run, cycle and do some triathlons.

Bottom line: When you see these middle-agers and seniors performing incredible feats of training, IMO, it's either superb genetics or anti-aging pharmaceuticals.

Trying to mimic the training of a runner on TRT is pointless unless you are taking it yourself.

color me impressed wrote:

I first read about this guy years ago, has always only ran twice a week, and now just ran a 5:29.81 mile just before his 72nd birthday... pretty impressive. He can beat a hell of a lot of much younger men.

https://www.runnersworld.com/masters/71-year-old-sets-blazing-fast-mile-world-record-on-low-mileage?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=Social&utm_term=1218178943&utm_campaign=Runner%E2%80%99s%20World

I've read about this beast before. One of my running buddies, he was a sub elite in his day but can still run some damn impressive damn times @ 58, sub 40 10k, near sub 19 5k, 3:10ish marathon. He knows his peak speed days are gone but I know he can still run low 5s. He started lifting weights more in the last decade and he looks a 15 years younger than most of the runners his age. It's amazing more runners 45+ don't adopt strength workouts into their training.

Ponce de Leon wrote:

fisky wrote:

Knowledge of master's training has improved. Athletes like Patton are sharing their training plans and other runners are benefiting from their success. Two years ago, I asked a former world champion for his secrets to 400m training. After following his plan, I beat him this past summer in the 400. He was happy for me... what a great guy!

.

Care to share?

Sure.

My opinion (and I've shared it in print in my book that's on Amazon) is that successful running after age 50 depends on genetics, recovery, HIIT, avoiding injuries, finding training that works for your unique body, and slowing the aging process.

For the 400m, what works for me is to warm up as if I were going to race the 400m and then do 2x200m with 60-second recovery. Roger Pierce, a multiple world champion in several age groups, shared this with me. It's not a secret, but it has helped my 400m times.

HIIT is critical for older athletes. I lift 3-5 times a week. And not easy lifts. I'll typically do 3x12 reps of whatever the exercise to near max on the 12th lift and then drop down in weight and do a burner set of 25-30 reps. For legs, I don't do weight lifts. I do hill sprints, wall balls, and weighted sleds, either a 30-second sled sprint or a 30m push taking long strides to work the glutes. I keep the sled heavy enough that often I can't make the entire 30m. Keep in mind that I'm a 400/800 guy who never does distance and Gary is 800/1500 so his training would be different.

Just to be clear, lifting 5x/week HINDERS my running in the short term. I do it because the HIIT slows aging over longer terms of several years. Before a big meet, I'll cut back 75% on lifting for 2-3 weeks.

As I said earlier, I look like a tank standing beside Gary, who is built more like a well-toned, slender distance runner. I'll ask Gary about his workouts when I see him in September, but I've been told one unusual thing he does is seated hip flexors. He'll sit in a chair and just lift one foot off the ground repeatedly. Try it. It gets tiring in a hurry. Since learning this, I now do hip flexor lifts 3x/week and a few times a day while seated.

Gary Patton is great, but Gene Dykes beat him in the 5,000, the 10,000 and the 1500 at the 2018 USATF National Masters Track & Field Championship a couple of weeks ago:

http://www.finishtimingresults.com/2018/2018-USATF/Day1.htm

What's your definition of successful running? If you're talking about being competitive and able train hard on a consistent basis without injuries, that would be more about genetics after age 50 and even more so beyond that.

The science is very clear on this; age-related musculoskeletal degenerative changes start occurring at age 50. And those with a significant injury history in their younger years will only have those injuries get worse in your older years.

This is what happen to me as I developed a significant injury history in my 20s & 30s only to have those injuries exacerbate into my 50s to more serious pathologies (e.g, tendon strains, stress fractures, osteoarthritis, etc.) This despite doing a lot of strength training & cross training over the decades, as you describe. Running is high impact unlike other non-weight bearing cardiovascular excercises. Genetics are a far more variable for being able run consistently, do higher mileage, hard speedwork, etc. without sustaining injuries than riding a bike, power walking or swimming.

Over half the guys I competed against & ran with in my 30s are no longer running in their 50s and are left for the trash heap. Many have the same chronic injuries I have and some have transitioned to cycling & race walking. If you don't have superb genetics and have a significant injury history to boot...trying to run consistently in your 50s will literally beat the snot out of you. Make room for ice bags & pain meds. ?