Easy/long run pace

Bill Oregon wrote:

Update: I’m currently in winter conditioning doing my runs around 6:30 (I’m home for break so I don’t have to worry about the team going slow). When I get back, I’m not going to run slow with them, I’m gonna get in great shape for the 10k so I make it to Nats. That’s the plan unless someone makes a better case

Wejo makes a pretty good case for slowing down on easy days...

easy arithmetic wrote:

Bill Oregon wrote:

Update: I’m currently in winter conditioning doing my runs around 6:30 (I’m home for break so I don’t have to worry about the team going slow). When I get back, I’m not going to run slow with them, I’m gonna get in great shape for the 10k so I make it to Nats. That’s the plan unless someone makes a better case

Tell us:

1. Current PRs

2. Weekly mileage.

If you're running 60 MPW and running 33:xx, you should focus on running MORE and that will require not forcing your easy pace.

If you're running 90 MPW and 30:xx, then yes you should feel free to go 6:40.

I am guessing you are somewhere in between.

I’m realistically looking at low 31s for 10k this track season (I’ve never ran one before but that’s what workouts show). I’ll be running about 65-70mpw because my coach doesn’t want to bring up my mileage very much (I’m hoping my coach will let me push it to 75 but we’ll see)

Bill Oregon wrote:

easy arithmetic wrote:

Tell us:

1. Current PRs

2. Weekly mileage.

If you're running 60 MPW and running 33:xx, you should focus on running MORE and that will require not forcing your easy pace.

If you're running 90 MPW and 30:xx, then yes you should feel free to go 6:40.

I am guessing you are somewhere in between.

I’m realistically looking at low 31s for 10k this track season (I’ve never ran one before but that’s what workouts show). I’ll be running about 65-70mpw because my coach doesn’t want to bring up my mileage very much (I’m hoping my coach will let me push it to 75 but we’ll see)

What are your current PRs?

Are you a Freshman?

angryjohnny wrote:

Bill Oregon wrote:

Update: I’m currently in winter conditioning doing my runs around 6:30 (I’m home for break so I don’t have to worry about the team going slow). When I get back, I’m not going to run slow with them, I’m gonna get in great shape for the 10k so I make it to Nats. That’s the plan unless someone makes a better case

Wejo makes a pretty good case for slowing down on easy days...

http://www.letsrun.com/news/2006/09/wejo-speaks-why-i-sucked-in-college/

In response to this post ^

My wife ran on the same college team as me about 3 years ago. I took some time off of running, but have been getting back in shape the last year. She came out to walk our dog while I did a tempo and after I joked with her about how slow I ran and probably how bad I looked. For the record I was running 5:45 pace for 5 miles.

She disagreed with me saying I looked as good or better than I ever did in college, saying how I looked much more relaxed today then about any workout 3-7 years ago. We both realized that I was running too hard, all the time in college. A lot of times trying to keep up with a few of my faster teammates. At the time, I thought this would make me better.

I was always someone who could destroy workouts, but never really raced up to my potential.... If only my 18 year old self could swallow some pride and run the appropriate paces and effort levels.

That's slow. I'm in high school and our team runs 7:45's on easy and long runs most days. I want to go 7:15's so I'm in a similar position as them. I think you should tell them that they're training like high schoolers and if you get your coach on your side then it will be easier to change your mind.

I used to be like you. When I first got to college I didn't really improve a lot initially. Start of my career was tough to adjust to the volume and intensity. I made a good jump in the middle of my career to 14:30s because I decided to run slower and not sacrifice the volume anymore. I was pumped for the year after and decided to run faster because I discovered pace calculators from coaching books. I got in pretty good shape early on and equaled my PRs. Then I improved only a little bit and plateaued the rest of the season (actually running bad at the end).

I ended up going back to what worked before at the tail end of college and through my 5th year. I ran more, workouts got faster, and I just ran off how I feel for other days. I went back to running 6:50-7:20 pace instead of pounding 6:10-6:30 every day. Wasn't uncommon for me to start north or 8:00 on a recovery day. I eventually got down to 13:47 before I graduated in the last race of my career. Was consistent all year and improved every single race as well (minus a sit and kick 1500 at conference).

Flashforward today and I coach D1 at an NCAA bubble school and I generally tell them to run slower than they think they should, often favoring going longer over faster. Old coach really liked lower mileage and higher intensity. Team 5k average was barely 15:00, now top 7 from XC average 14:22-27 the past couple years.

One of the posters said it's not about the pace of your runs but about how every thing interacts in a system. I totally agree. Run big miles, let the fitness come to you, recover from workouts. That's how you make it. What you plan on doing, especially with your current mileage, will only lead to disappointment.

Coffee Monster wrote:

What are your current PRs?

Are you a Freshman?

I’m a freshman

I’m response to formersub14, I would love to do more mileage but my coach doesn’t want me to. I’m going to beg for 75 but I might not even get that.

Typical progression for my athletes are:

FR 60-65

SO 70-75

JR 80-85

SR 90+

5th 90+

Really depends on runner's background.

My progression was pretty similar but I did 100 mpw occasionally my 5th year. I don't mean mega miles by any means. But you would be shocked to see how many programs really don't do that much. The key is consistency and doing what ever "high mileage" is for you. If you can string together a bunch of 80-90+ mile weeks those last couple years from January - Early April, you are going to be strong.

Bill Oregon wrote:

I’m response to formersub14, I would love to do more mileage but my coach doesn’t want me to. I’m going to beg for 75 but I might not even get that.

You took exactly the wrong message from his post. He wants you to slow down and relax, before you up your mileage.

My experience with guys who claim they can crank easy runs way faster than I would think, based on their PRs, is that they strain on easy days. Yesterday I did a track workout with a guy who says he goes sub-6:20 most days, despite having a 5k PR of 15:50. On our cool down he was sucking wind at 7:30 pace.

Bottom line: 6:20 isn't easy for him. Neither would 6:40 be.

Not a College Runner wrote:

Bill Oregon wrote:

I’m response to formersub14, I would love to do more mileage but my coach doesn’t want me to. I’m going to beg for 75 but I might not even get that.

You took exactly the wrong message from his post. He wants you to slow down and relax, before you up your mileage.

My experience with guys who claim they can crank easy runs way faster than I would think, based on their PRs, is that they strain on easy days. Yesterday I did a track workout with a guy who says he goes sub-6:20 most days, despite having a 5k PR of 15:50. On our cool down he was sucking wind at 7:30 pace.

Bottom line: 6:20 isn't easy for him. Neither would 6:40 be.

What I’m trying to say is this: my coach won’t let me do very much mileage, so doesn’t it make sense to run a little faster since I can’t run more? (I would run more and slower if I could, but I can’t).

Also, I believe that aerobic fitness is the most important part of distance running. Won’t doing my easy runs at a decent pace help my aerobic fitness?

One final note, I am a true distance runner in the way that I don’t have very much speed, but I can go for a really long time super comfortably. Tempos are my favorite workout and I usually run them faster than people who are better than me, while exerting less effort. All I’m trying to say is that 6:40 pace truly is easy for me. I’m not pushing it to strain to become a better runner. It’s just simply a good pace for me, and when I run that pace consistently, my aerobic fitness thrives.

Thanks for all the help, it has really broadened my perspective

Former Sub 14:00 wrote:

Typical progression for my athletes are:

FR 60-65

SO 70-75

JR 80-85

SR 90+

5th 90+

Really depends on runner's background.

My progression was pretty similar but I did 100 mpw occasionally my 5th year. I don't mean mega miles by any means. But you would be shocked to see how many programs really don't do that much. The key is consistency and doing what ever "high mileage" is for you. If you can string together a bunch of 80-90+ mile weeks those last couple years from January - Early April, you are going to be strong.

That would put me at 60-65 (which is what my coach has me doing).

It is tragically funny how youth never wants to listen to the older people who have been there before. Doesn't matter if it is slowing down your easy runs, saving more money, taking better care of your teeth, whatever. They don't care. They're young! It feels fine!

Good luck with your season Mr. Oregon.

Bill Oregon wrote:

I’m response to formersub14, I would love to do more mileage but my coach doesn’t want me to. I’m going to beg for 75 but I might not even get that.

If you want to run more, run more - coach doesn't need to know about it. Then, you don't need to worry so much about increasing the pace.

compressed wrote:

Bill Oregon wrote:

I’m response to formersub14, I would love to do more mileage but my coach doesn’t want me to. I’m going to beg for 75 but I might not even get that.

If you want to run more, run more - coach doesn't need to know about it. Then, you don't need to worry so much about increasing the pace.

Going behind your coaches back is possibly one of the worst things you can do for your running career. Not gonna do that.

keepgoing wrote:

It is tragically funny how youth never wants to listen to the older people who have been there before. Doesn't matter if it is slowing down your easy runs, saving more money, taking better care of your teeth, whatever. They don't care. They're young! It feels fine!

Good luck with your season Mr. Oregon.

I wrote this post because I would like advice. What I’ve heard from this thread is that you should run more miles at a slower pace- I can’t do that because my coach won’t let me run more- so I’m wondering if I should still run a little bit faster on my runs since I can’t run more. I’m totally not trying to blow off advice, I’m sorry if that is how I sounded. I just want to race my best. Thanks all for your input

70 mpw is plenty for a freshman in college. Seriously. You have other stuff going on presumably, and you should be focusing on those things too. There's several more years for you to get to 100 mpw. Are you allowed to cross train?

I know. And I wasn't writing the above because I was hurt you haven't taken my advice. It was mostly a joke. I actually work with college students every day, and I'm used to seeing a wide variety of responses and reasoning when it comes to decision making and changes.

Also, you're right. We did all say to run more. We said run more and slow down some.

But you're also reading into what you want to read into. Once we found out your were a freshman, most posters amended that to run 65 to 70 mpw AND still slow down the easy days a bit. We are also waiting on your PRs. Realistically being in shape for something is nothing. I could say I'm realistically in shape to run a sub 2:30 marathon and a 15 minute 5k because I will often run with guys who regularly run those times. Of course, they're running 7:20 miles with me:)

We know you want to crush it out there this upcoming track season. Who doesn't? My advice, as an older dude, would be to set yourself up to crush it NEXT season. So run smart, run fast, but also run easy all spring and don't kill yourself. In the back of your head be setting things up for fall XC. But here's the kicker, when XC comes around, run smart, run fast, but also run easy and set yourself up to really, really crush it in the next season. You see where this is going. Consistency and long term progression.

Thanks man, I think I understand what you’re saying. I’ll definitely take this into account