A buddy and I are having a debate about this.
If a Nick Symmonds (Willamette) or Will Lear (Pomona) had run DI would they have had better pro running careers?
More recently Annie Richards at DIII Ohio Northern made the USATF finals in the 800m. Would she be a better runner had she gone to Texas A&M, Oregon or Stanford?
correction ..... Emily Richards at Ohio Northern
Yes, I regret it every day because I haven't met many that respect DIII and DII (I ran both). And based on my times I would have done well at DI.
gs wrote:
Yes, I regret it every day because I haven't met many that respect DIII and DII (I ran both). And based on my times I would have done well at DI.
Did you qualify for DIII national meets? How did you do?
Would you have been a top-7 runner for a top DI NCAA XC team?
D1 is a grind, some people need to progress slower. Optimal path would be D3 for a few years and then transfer to D1, I think most people who have excelled coming out of D3 would actually have been at a detriment being D1 all 4 years.
I regret it a bit, but for weird reasons.
I went to a top 20 research school, went to Nationals multiple times.
A comparable school would have been an Ivy or Stanford. I knew some of the Stanford runners at the time. I knew a few Ivy guys too. I would have been fine in those programs. But I wasn't ready for their training at 18, but I knew a few guys on those rosters who weren't either. If I had been at Stanford, I'd have chosen something totally different as far as a career path, and I'd be in a different spot, but I have no real regrets about where I am.
I also don't regret my development. I was a state champ in HS, but on very low mileage. The school I selected was the best choice for me based on training status.
The thing is, if the question is this simple, it's too broad. I definitely do NOT regret going to some lower tier D1 just to say that I ran D1. I sort of regret not going to an Ivy or Stanford, but I'm not sure that's really a fair statement. So, on average, I'd have to say I did not regret going to a D3, because a lot of D1 schools are not as amazing as you think, either academically or athletically.
Having coached for a decade, I can tell you that Nick and Will don't have regrets about it either. The personalized attention that they received (that a lot of national caliber athletes receive in D3) was a huge factor in their success. Is it possible that either of them would have risen to the top sooner? Maybe. Maybe not. I'm not sure you can look back on Symmonds career and say, "he'd have been better at ___________". Hind sight is 20-20, but that's a hard statement to pull.
No regrets. First of all I was not good enough to run in a D1 program as a frosh. Secondly running D3 allowed me to develop at a healthy rate. Long term it worked out for me. Wound up running D1 comparable times
Flanders other neighbor wrote:
I regret it a bit, but for weird reasons.
I went to a top 20 research school, went to Nationals multiple times.
A comparable school would have been an Ivy or Stanford. I knew some of the Stanford runners at the time. I knew a few Ivy guys too. I would have been fine in those programs. But I wasn't ready for their training at 18, but I knew a few guys on those rosters who weren't either. If I had been at Stanford, I'd have chosen something totally different as far as a career path, and I'd be in a different spot, but I have no real regrets about where I am...
You are exactly who I want to talk to.
If you had gone to an Ivy or Stanford would you have achieved what you wanted to athletically and in your career?
Are you happy with your career? Did your DIII undergraduate degree lead you down a different career path than if you had attended your DI state university?
Olympics and a solid career path. Where do you go for that? :-) Are these limited choices or can you go to North Dakota?
Sorry, for my example I should have picked Haverford or Williams or any school in the Northeast.
North Dakota probably does not have a highfalutin DIII school :-)
Nick Symonds obviously not.
Hell no. I went to a small liberal arts school which has a great science program as well as a good XC program. I trained hard, raced hard, partied a LOT and did well in classes. I got into med school and am just finishing up my medical training now. I look back on my college running experience with a lot of fond memories. I ran 25 min for 8k and 14:45 for 5k. Could I have ran faster if I had focused more on the "details" of running? absolutely. I was never going to be a sub 14 or sub 29 guy however. Getting drunk and partying was not good for recovery, but it sure was a lot of fun.
I went to DI and wish I'd gone to DIII.
I'm absolutely certain I would have achieved far more, running-wise, in DIII.
The DI school I attended was a meatgrinder, and was near impossible for even state champions to get a look; there were other, faster state champions there, and more incoming. Very difficult environment.
I wear Skechers wrote:
I went to DI and wish I'd gone to DIII.
I'm absolutely certain I would have achieved far more, running-wise, in DIII.
The DI school I attended was a meatgrinder, and was near impossible for even state champions to get a look; there were other, faster state champions there, and more incoming. Very difficult environment.
Interested to hear more about your experience if you want to share
I wear Skechers wrote:
I went to DI and wish I'd gone to DIII.
I'm absolutely certain I would have achieved far more, running-wise, in DIII.
The DI school I attended was a meatgrinder, and was near impossible for even state champions to get a look; there were other, faster state champions there, and more incoming. Very difficult environment.
Agree completely.
I was a DI AA and post grad a two time OT qualifier, but the road to get there was rough as hell and several times I almost quit running in disappointment and frustration. I follow DIII closely and seeing how much some of those guys improve after lackluster HS careers, I can’t help feeling I would have had more fun and more success running in a top DIII program.
I’d go so far as to say that unless you are a solid sub-9:00 3200m performer (or equivalent in other events), you would be a lot better off running DIII.
DI versus DIII wrote:
A buddy and I are having a debate about this.
If a Nick Symmonds (Willamette) or Will Lear (Pomona) had run DI would they have had better pro running careers?
More recently Annie Richards at DIII Ohio Northern made the USATF finals in the 800m. Would she be a better runner had she gone to Texas A&M, Oregon or Stanford?
On the contrary, I think there is a valid argument to be made that they may never have even developed into professional runners had they gone D1. Think of how much talent goes to D1 and flames out because of coaching, life circumstances, or whatever the case. You're assuming that these runners would have gone D1 and had good experiences. The reality is that more runners would probably develop better in D2 and D1 because of the support and the "big fish little pond" that allows them to gain the confidence and develop at their own levels. In our sport, positive progression and support make huge differences in a runner taking the next step, especially from a confidence level. Therefore, it isn't to say that maybe a successful D3 runner wouldn't have excelled in D1 but its probably the inverse that it would have made them better. I think alot more D1 runners would benefit from going the other direction and developing their training/confidence at the D2 or D3 level before either transferring D1 or using it as stepping stone to professional level.
Hilti wrote:
No regrets. First of all I was not good enough to run in a D1 program as a frosh. Secondly running D3 allowed me to develop at a healthy rate. Long term it worked out for me. Wound up running D1 comparable times
Same here. Although the only D1 time I would have been near was the steeplechase. 2xAll American in the steeple with a PR of 8:57, placing 3rd and 4th and 1xAll American in XC. We also won NCAAs in XC, SUNY Cortland.
Would have been nicer to have failed in D1 than failed in D3.
Flanders other neighbor wrote:
I regret it a bit, but for weird reasons.
I went to a top 20 research school, went to Nationals multiple times.
So this is...
WashU, Rice, Carnegie Mellon?
Narrows it down
I ran d3. Didn't have the chops to walk on at a major d1 school out of high school? Could I have gone to some shi7 college with crummy academics and walked on a bad D1 team? Sure. By my senior year I was beating most d1 guys at meets we ran. No regrets. I bet a lot of those had to run D1'ers who went to Podunk A and M or ran distance for sprint schools are regretting it though.
Harambe wrote:
So this is...
WashU, Rice, Carnegie Mellon?
Narrows it down
Rice is D1.
Johns Hopkins would fit the mold.