2:25 marathon attempt in May, should I pop my marathon cherry with an easy one in February or shoot for another fast HM?

I would probably do the marathon. However, it sounds like you have never done a marathon before. So see how the half goes in Houston, but I also don't recommend just assuming you can drop 20, six-minute miles and then run a faster 10k on top of that. Either way, that marathon will probably make for a nice learning experience.

Run the marathon. But don't fix your marathon paces until a few weeks before the races.

way overweight a year ago and now shooting for 2:25? what makes you think you can run in that time range?

how fat and how fast? wrote:

way overweight a year ago and now shooting for 2:25? what makes you think you can run in that time range?

2 years ago I was running ~14:50. I've put in ~3500 miles in the last year, shed the weight, and my fitness is starting to come around. I don't have much doubt I can, it's really a question of good preparation and execution.

My stretch goal is an OTQ. Big stretch. I'm looking at like this:

Year 1: 80-90 mpw, regain fitness, pop that cherry, hit ~2:25

Year 2: 100-110 mpw, see if 2:21-2:22 is possible

Year 3: 110-120 mpw, find out what I can do

If I can't do it before 2020, I'll have one more Olympic cycle before I'm too old.

run within your abilities wrote:

Run the marathon. But don't fix your marathon paces until a few weeks before the races.

Good point.

Do you think that type of run will set me back in training? Assuming I'm in 2:25-2:27 marathon shape, it seems reasonable to me, although my longest run at that point will be 20-22 miles. Those additional 4-6 miles could really be killer.

anonymous wannabe wrote:

how fat and how fast? wrote:

way overweight a year ago and now shooting for 2:25? what makes you think you can run in that time range?

2 years ago I was running ~14:50. I've put in ~3500 miles in the last year, shed the weight, and my fitness is starting to come around. I don't have much doubt I can, it's really a question of good preparation and execution.

My stretch goal is an OTQ. Big stretch. I'm looking at like this:

Year 1: 80-90 mpw, regain fitness, pop that cherry, hit ~2:25

Year 2: 100-110 mpw, see if 2:21-2:22 is possible

Year 3: 110-120 mpw, find out what I can do

If I can't do it before 2020, I'll have one more Olympic cycle before I'm too old.

Wait up, you are telling us you ran 14.50 way overweight? How heavy were you exactly. Sounds iffy to me.

Smells funny wrote:

Wait up, you are telling us you ran 14.50 way overweight? How heavy were you exactly. Sounds iffy to me.

Lol follow the timeline. 2 years ago I ran ~14:50 (skinny). 1 year ago I was 25 lbs overweight (fat). This year I'm back to racing weight (skinny). I shouldn't have mentioned the weight. It seemed important at the time.

Imo it depends on your mileage. I'm a 2:28 guy and for the last few cycles I have run marathons as workouts during my training (2:33, 2:40, 2:32 - all negative splits). It's very hard to turn around and get in consistent miles in the week following a race and you're going to miss at least one workout, maybe two. I've never felt like it helped my training but I wanted to run the races and so I fit them in as best I could.

Without averaging 100+ mpw it's not worth trying but above that it's OK if you are disciplined about pacing and not chasing people running faster than your goal. It's really difficult to avoid race day excitement and if you blow up in the "training run" marathon you're going to screw yourself for the next 2 weeks of training.

I won't get over 100 mpw this cycle.

Do the marathon but don’t bother trying to run 5:30s the last 10k. Run it as relaxed and easy as you can. The shear mileage is enough of a stressor you don’t need to hammer the last 10k.

AndyDufresne2 wrote:

Imo it depends on your mileage. I'm a 2:28 guy and for the last few cycles I have run marathons as workouts during my training (2:33, 2:40, 2:32 - all negative splits).

Maybe I'm reading this wrong... but, as a 2:28 guy, why are you running marathons within 4 minutes of your PR... as workouts? This could, potentially, be why you are not a 2:25 guy?

Related to this question (and OP's question): I'm a 2:29 "guy." I top out at 20-22 mile runs at 6:00 - 5:50 pace, typically 3 of these runs in the 6 weeks leading up to goal race. I imagine it wouldn't do you any harm to run a reasonable, steady marathon 2-3 months out... but I would try to keep the effort at comfortably hard as opposed to hammering the last 10k. I think it would be important to finish that effort feeling good and confident about your preparedness for the distance.

Screw it, I'll be the sole dissenter. I say run the half. I hear youbthat you aren't planning on running the marathon all out, but it is still going to be a significant effort on your part if you're guessing you're in 2:25 shape. Lots of things can happen over the course of 26.2, and it would be a shame for you to get injured or exacerbate a niggle by way of he intermediate marathon.

Yes, it can happen at any time even in the half. And maybe I'm projecting because I've personally felt best to hell after my three marathons (which may be attibutable to age), but it seems that the marathon distance, even at lesss than 100% effort, does raise the likelihood significantly.

Schuylkill wrote:

Maybe I'm reading this wrong... but, as a 2:28 guy, why are you running marathons within 4 minutes of your PR... as workouts? This could, potentially, be why you are not a 2:25 guy?

That's an interesting take, maybe you're right. I ran marathons I wanted to run because I wanted to run them. I'd rather enjoy the sport and run several races per year than hunker down only to peak my head out twice yearly. But thanks for the condescending note.

If you are going to give advice based on personal experience, I think a more full bodied discussion of that point might make for a better conversation. Your post seems to suggest that your 2:28 time - a strong time - was due in part to your habit of running a moderately hard marathon in advance of that; whereas your subsequent response seems to suggest that you were doing it more for the experience than to maximize your performance. For a guy who is trying to pop a stretch time, that is good information to know.

I mentioned in my first post, "I've never felt like it helped my training but I wanted to run the races and so I fit them in as best I could."

I can expand on that if you want. For me, I can typically run 20-22 @ 6:10ish on Saturday and be ready for a long fartlek again on Monday and a tempo on Thursday. On the flip side after a Sunday marathon I'd try to double with short stuff like 3+3 Monday, 5+5 Tuesday, then regular mileage on Wednesday and Thursday and a slower workout on Friday, resuming training the next week. I don't think it was a huge negative because I had 100 miles each the week before and after, but it wasn't a positive because the training effect of that marathon probably didn't make up for the lost workout and a half.

I mostly chimed in to give perspective. I know the default answer to the question is "no", but if OP is running enough mileage to support a 2:25 marathon they should be able to turn around within a week so it's not a huge deal if they want to do it.

By the way, I'm trying not to get on a tangent but if you think about it in terms of a 2h35m hard progression run it's not all that crazy of a workout.

I was wrong and stand corrected. My bad.

anonymous wannabe wrote:

how fat and how fast? wrote:

way overweight a year ago and now shooting for 2:25? what makes you think you can run in that time range?

2 years ago I was running ~14:50. I've put in ~3500 miles in the last year, shed the weight, and my fitness is starting to come around. I don't have much doubt I can, it's really a question of good preparation and execution.

My stretch goal is an OTQ. Big stretch. I'm looking at like this:

Year 1: 80-90 mpw, regain fitness, pop that cherry, hit ~2:25

Year 2: 100-110 mpw, see if 2:21-2:22 is possible

Year 3: 110-120 mpw, find out what I can do

If I can't do it before 2020, I'll have one more Olympic cycle before I'm too old.

Total Troll. No one at that level would be coming to Letsrun for advice. You're that du*b that you can't figure it out for yourself?

-infinity/1000000

AndyDufresne2 wrote:

That's an interesting take, maybe you're right. I ran marathons I wanted to run because I wanted to run them. I'd rather enjoy the sport and run several races per year than hunker down only to peak my head out twice yearly. But thanks for the condescending note.

I was totally on-board with your first 3 sentences, as I can understand wanting to race for the sake of racing. Racing is fun and I often race (not marathons) at times when a well-thought workout might be a better choice. But I wasn't trying to be condescending in the least. My response was supposed to be definitive constructive criticism. Perhaps you are better than your solid PR would indicate and some reworking of your training (patience?) might get you into the mid/low 2:20's.

It took Andy Dufresne 20 years to break out of Shawshank.

Also, your mention of "cycles" in your 1st post lead me to believe that there was an A-race or goal at the end of the tunnel... that might (and probably should) outweigh your desire to race marathons often. Regardless, good luck with your future goals and keep blasting away if that's what makes you happy. I sincerely wish you the best.

Run the half, and then reassess from there.