Is this the most neglected factor in distance running?

Weights are almost always anaerobic.

No, eating a bagel at the start line is the most neglected factor in distance running.

Pass the bagels wrote:

No, eating a bagel at the start line is the most neglected factor in distance running.

Also, don't underestimate the power of stopping at the water station to drink water.

Journey to Elite wrote:

When you run different distances you use different types of muscles (i.e. slow-twitch, fast-twitch)

As an example, if you use a certain type of twitch muscles during 1500. Then the stronger those particular muscles are then the faster you are at running at that pace.

So, if you do 50 deadlifts that recruit "1500m twitch muscles" then presumably 1500m pace would be faster/easier and your heart rate would be lower at a certain pace, effectively increasing running economy.

You get a decent amount of this from running as it works the particular muscles that you want to use but unless you are doing 1500m stuff yearly then the muscles needed to run at that pace wouldn't be as strong.

Thoughts?

You did not mention which distance you are training for. For the 1500 and above the most neglected areas would have to be the longer long run and sprint training. I use the term "sprint training," because when you say speed training people assume I mean speed endurance.

Speed/Sprint training is repetitions of 50-60-70-80 meters. Doing flying 30s can be effective as well.

Rope skipping, short hills, bounding uphills, fast dynamic running drills, and downhill running are other ways to train this. Make no mistake 10 X 200 is speed endurance and that kind of thing is more important than anything once you get into shape. But ignoring the other important spark plugs are crucial unless you happen to be a wonderful talent.

The reason why most coaches avoid this is because they do not understand that a recovery day must follow speed/sprint training and also the longer long run. Often coaches use a tempo run the day after these things!

Journey to Elite wrote:

When you run different distances you use different types of muscles (i.e. slow-twitch, fast-twitch)

As an example, if you use a certain type of twitch muscles during 1500. Then the stronger those particular muscles are then the faster you are at running at that pace.

So, if you do 50 deadlifts that recruit "1500m twitch muscles" then presumably 1500m pace would be faster/easier and your heart rate would be lower at a certain pace, effectively increasing running economy.

You get a decent amount of this from running as it works the particular muscles that you want to use but unless you are doing 1500m stuff yearly then the muscles needed to run at that pace wouldn't be as strong.

Thoughts?

No, that's not the most neglected factor in distance running. That's hardly even a factor. You can train fast twitch, slow twitch, or 1500m pace work any time of the year. You don't need dead lifts to do it.

I absolutely agree with you that the (true) long run and (true) sprint training are both neglected factors in mid-distance training.

But the single most neglected factor across the board is probably the one you mentioned tangentially in your last paragraph -- recovery.

Not just a simple rest break one day per week, or one day out of ten, or when the athlete feels the need. I'm talking about the proper and effective use of both active and passive recovery.

And not just to try to prevent injury or overtraining. I mean the actual use of recovery to maximize the adaptations and benefits of training.

Too many athletes (and frankly coaches as well) are too focused on "getting everything in" and overlook (or in many cases simply don't understand) the importance and value of proper and sufficient recovery.

water etiquette wrote:

Pass the bagels wrote:

No, eating a bagel at the start line is the most neglected factor in distance running.

Also, don't underestimate the power of stopping at the water station to drink water.

Wearing the best sneakers money can buy is also a big one.

To answer the question posed in the thread title: Recovery.

if you are interested in reading about using weight training as high repetition for middle distance look into Tudor Bompa.

The development of leg speed velocity.

Cleaver. wrote:

To answer the question posed in the thread title: Recovery.

No. People recover all the time. They don't run enough in between their recoveries.

Colon cleansing.

va coach wrote:

And not just to try to prevent injury or overtraining. I mean the actual use of recovery to maximize the adaptations and benefits of training.

Too many athletes (and frankly coaches as well) are too focused on "getting everything in" and overlook (or in many cases simply don't understand) the importance and value of proper and sufficient recovery.

Can you elaborate a bit on this or give an example of what you mean?

va coach wrote:

I absolutely agree with you that the (true) long run and (true) sprint training are both neglected factors in mid-distance training.

But the single most neglected factor across the board is probably the one you mentioned tangentially in your last paragraph -- recovery.

Not just a simple rest break one day per week, or one day out of ten, or when the athlete feels the need. I'm talking about the proper and effective use of both active and passive recovery.

And not just to try to prevent injury or overtraining. I mean the actual use of recovery to maximize the adaptations and benefits of training.

Too many athletes (and frankly coaches as well) are too focused on "getting everything in" and overlook (or in many cases simply don't understand) the importance and value of proper and sufficient recovery.

It's interesting that you recommend a total rest day. I think it depends on how the person trains as well. If they are not consistent in their running a total rest day may not be needed. It's probably equally true for a novice compared to the elite runner. Yes, you do need to get everything in and that means recovery runs.

What have they done and how are they recovering matters. Lydiard recommended that the athlete determine when he is done with an interval workout. Remember too that running different speeds in practice will also prevent injuries! I want my athletes to run everything from 100 meter speed to slower than marathon pace.

I think you have to go day to day but we do tend to be "gut-bustiest-clench-fisty, " as an early 1970s Runner's World article stated. If the runner is that way then he will need both an active recovery day and nearly complete rest day to make up for it.

You will become a better deadlifter.

Journey to Elite wrote:

When you run different distances you use different types of muscles (i.e. slow-twitch, fast-twitch)

As an example, if you use a certain type of twitch muscles during 1500. Then the stronger those particular muscles are then the faster you are at running at that pace.

So, if you do 50 deadlifts that recruit "1500m twitch muscles" then presumably 1500m pace would be faster/easier and your heart rate would be lower at a certain pace, effectively increasing running economy.

You get a decent amount of this from running as it works the particular muscles that you want to use but unless you are doing 1500m stuff yearly then the muscles needed to run at that pace wouldn't be as strong.

Thoughts?

The things that aren’t involved in the actual process of running: recovery, strength training, nutrition.

1. Foam roll instead of stretch.

2. Strength train to improve strength and explosiveness, improving running economy.

3. Don’t use running as an excuse to eat whatever you want. Eat to fuel and recover from your activity.

Alan

no the answer is magic. Some people have it, most don't. I know a Swede who has it in abundance.

Not to say speed isn't important at any distance but how often to do you run 1500 pace in a marathon. It's the aerobic capacity through volume that that some people like to refer to as strength that is the most important and people don't put in enough of. Weight lifting for elite running is close to worthless. How many dead lifts and squats do the best distance runners in the world from Kiprop in the 1500 to Kipchoge in the marathon do, close to 0 if any. Anytime you start a discussion on the most neglected factor in distance running and you suggest its weight lifting its clear you have no idea what you're talking about.

Primo Numero Uno wrote:

Not to say speed isn't important at any distance but how often to do you run 1500 pace in a marathon. It's the aerobic capacity through volume that that some people like to refer to as strength that is the most important and people don't put in enough of. Weight lifting for elite running is close to worthless. How many dead lifts and squats do the best distance runners in the world from Kiprop in the 1500 to Kipchoge in the marathon do, close to 0 if any. Anytime you start a discussion on the most neglected factor in distance running and you suggest its weight lifting its clear you have no idea what you're talking about.

But yet the NOP lifts....Haile lifted....El Guerrouj lifted....

But keep telling yourself it’s not beneficial.

Alan