Wrote an article on strength training for distance runners, any feedback would be greatly appreciated. What would you change? How is your strength training program set up?
It's my first website so still learning a lot.
Wrote an article on strength training for distance runners, any feedback would be greatly appreciated. What would you change? How is your strength training program set up?
It's my first website so still learning a lot.
No heavy barbell movements?
squats? deads?
Why all of the arbitrary numbers like 20 and 10? Usually that indicates you are just making it up without a good reason behind it. Everything you do should have a specific reason behind it. Try to find that reason in each exercise you suggest. Also I would suggest citing more research so when that you say do X because of Y you have something to back up your claim.
another runner wrote:
Why all of the arbitrary numbers like 20 and 10? Usually that indicates you are just making it up without a good reason behind it. Everything you do should have a specific reason behind it. Try to find that reason in each exercise you suggest. Also I would suggest citing more research so when that you say do X because of Y you have something to back up your claim.
Whether you do 20 reps or 18 or 22 doesn't matter that much.
If someone is new to strength training usually having a set number is better than a rep range like 8-12.
I'll try to cite research in the future, it's something I've considered as I've read a lot of it before, but the feedback that I've gotten from a lot of readers is that they don't even glance over the citations at the bottom of the page. They don't really care about the research, as long as it works for them.
I agree with that single leg exercises are very beneficial and if using weights you don't have to use so heavy weights (distance runner doing squats is usually horrible to even watch). One goal of strength training is also to correct muscular imbalances, easy running doesn't activate your glutes and hamstrings significantly. If you run a lot of hills it's better and you get some good specific strength endurance work, and would benefit more from progressing towards heavier weights. But if you're new to strength training I suggest body weight circuits at first:
Strength training progression
1. General strength
-Circuit training for beginners / no weight training background
-Many exercises (~10-12), ~3 circuits, 15-30 repetitions per set
-Rest ~30-60sec between sets, 2-3min between circuits
-Alternate muscle groups
-Load 40-60% of maximum if using weights, 8-12 repetitions per set, ~3 sets, 1-2min rests
-Body weight only for beginners and juniors, 8-12weeks or longer
-Can be done after speed drills, sprints, bounding...
2. Maximum strength
-Less exercises
-6-12 weeks
-Load ~70-85% of maximum
-4-6 repetitions per set, ~3 sets, ~3min rest
-Can be done after speed drills, sprints, bounding...
3. Power/muscular endurance
Convert the maximum strength to power (800m) or muscular endurance (longer distance) or can mix both (milers). Power and muscular endurance are related to the maximum strength
Power:
-4-8 weeks
-Few exercises
-Load 30-50% of maximum
-Up to ~10 repetitions done at maximum speed, ~3-4 sets
-3-5min rest
-Can be done after speed drills, sprints, bounding...
Muscular endurance:
-4-8 weeks
-Few exercises done in circuits
-Load ~20-40% of maximum on weights, 15-30 reps per set, 3-5 circuits
-Rest ~30-45sec between sets, 2-3 min between circuits
-Can mix with Power work
-Can be done after speed drills, sprints, bounding...
Overall looks good, there isn't really much point in using 20-40% of your max in my opinion, even if you are moving it at maximum speed.
I thought about adding hip thrusts to emphasize the "hips forward" posture that most good runners have and many poor runners are lacking, and glute strength is something a lot of runners are lacking.
Some cool stuff on your website.
Maybe you could write an article on transitioning from running to lifting?
once a runner now a lifter wrote:
Overall looks good, there isn't really much point in using 20-40% of your max in my opinion, even if you are moving it at maximum speed.
But in my opinion, if you use heavier weights you can't do the sets as fast and explosively, with a good technique. It's different kind of explosive strength work than the jumpers and throwers do, running/sprinting is cyclic movement, instead of acyclic. Maintenance work for maximum strength, after the max strength phase, keeps you strong. Always maintain what you've built.
Good stuff listed here. I'll throw out my thoughts as a guy who was a runner and cyclist, then a lifter for years, and is now back to primarily running (with some lifting).
In general, all your info is good. From a web article standpoint, I think you should consider breaking it into more than one article. There is a lot of information in the beginning about injuries and why strength is important. I could see you having an entire article along the lines of "why should runners consider strength training?"
Others have jumped in and asked why no barbell movements. There is the power clean people! But I agree on this one. As a person mostly lifting, I did a lot of deadlifting and zercher squats and front squats and I really liked them. Once I got back to running I kind of kept them for a while, but then they just fell out of favor. They are hard to work on while running. Either you are hitting the barbell like you should and it is detracting from your running or you are deadlifting/squating with weights that aren't really giving you much strength.
So I have over the years shifted to almost the exact exercises you talk about. Love the sing leg stuff. I think the only stuff I do that you have not listed there is single leg balance work (upright and horizontal like warrior yoga poses) and single leg hip bridges. As for upper body, I really like pullups, clean and presses (single weight, kettlebell or dumbell) and rows (again, single weight).
And my last comment is totally personal and picky. But I find reading the black text on that blue background kind of off-putting. See what your other readers feel about it. But with lots of text-heavy articles, I think you should prioritize making the reading experience easy.
just perusing wrote:
Some cool stuff on your website.
Maybe you could write an article on transitioning from running to lifting?
Sure, it'll be up in a couple days.
Thanks for the feedback!
The thing about deadlifts is that for some people they cause quite a bit of hypertrophy of the traps, forearms, lats and erectors-muscles that are just dead weight for 800m+ and somewhat useless even for sprinters. Romanian deadlifts (RDLs) are slightly more glute and hamstring focused but having a heavy weight in your hands will still be a lot of back involvement. Even hang cleans might cause some runners traps to blow up-every runner needs a slightly different weight training plan and this is just a suggestion as a base template. I do include deadlifting in other programs-rowers for example can benefit from the back development.
I totally agree that single leg is the way to go-and most runners have permanently shifted hips, sacrums, leg length imbalances and mobility issues from cambered roads and left hand turns that make squatting a mess. It's hard to improve the barbell movements when running high volumes (for a lot of reasons) but I think it's doable with good programming. Running and lifting are quite different physiologically speaking so I think getting the low-hanging fruit by doing the most bang for your buck exercises and low volumes are probably best, particularly when in-season and peaking. At some point you have to make a sacrifice-you'll never be world class at both lifting and running.
I haven't heard anything negative about the color scheme but I'll ask around, I'm not married to the blue and black at all.
I'll consider writing shorter articles in the future, I want to info to be useful but also very readable and bite-sized in today's attention span deficient world.
U.N.O. wrote:
once a runner now a lifter wrote:
Overall looks good, there isn't really much point in using 20-40% of your max in my opinion, even if you are moving it at maximum speed.
But in my opinion, if you use heavier weights you can't do the sets as fast and explosively, with a good technique. It's different kind of explosive strength work than the jumpers and throwers do, running/sprinting is cyclic movement, instead of acyclic. Maintenance work for maximum strength, after the max strength phase, keeps you strong. Always maintain what you've built.
Sure, as canova says, always add, don't replace.
I think 60-80% is the "money" zone-unless you are preparing for a powerlifting or weightlifting competition, there's no real reason to max out. Some lifters can get maximum muscle fiber recruitment with 40%, but only if you lift explosively...which not many runners are. You can learn to lift explosively but most barbell movements you'll unconsciously "decelerate" the weight, which is why most powerlifters doing "speed work" use chains or bands...not really something that I think runners need to use. I think there might be some benefit to it but I didn't really want to complicate things overmuch. You can just get your power development with jumps and hang cleans.
It is quite easy to maintain, I definitely agree on that...the same with running, nothing but two interval sessions a month keeps me in decent (4:45mile) running shape.
once a runner now a lifter wrote:
I think 60-80% is the "money" zone-unless you are preparing for a powerlifting or weightlifting competition, there's no real reason to max out.
I agree. Progression on the strength/weight work is simple. At first build a good general strength. Once ready move towards heavier weights, and you're on the right track to reap the most benefits from the gym work. Speaking about maximal strength work. What does that mean for a distance runner, lifting as heavy as you can? No. As I previously suggested, you should stay around 70-85% of 1 rep max, using 4-6 reps in a set. And to be able to do this safely, you need to go through the general strength phase with weights, using loads from 40% to 60% or so. Or keeping it more simple, you probably do it by feel. I didn't know what was my 1 rep max when lifted "heavy". If you can lift 3 sets of 4-6 reps and feel ready to lift again after ~3 minutes, the load is in the right range.
By the way, the nickname of yours is true in my case too. Or shall I say "Once a runner now a wannabe lifter". I enjoy of the fact that I'm stronger than ever and have still plenty of room to improve and learn more about lifting. I lift usually at least three times per week nowadays in the hard weeks, and have gained several kilograms of muscles, with some fat too though. But I'm going to be so ripped, some day...
Wanna-be-lifter here as well...I deadlifted 180kg for 10 today (sumo) but in my weight class the world record for the snatch is more than that...so basically there are people lifting what I lift with such force that they can throw it and catch it above their heads...crazy.
Thank god for the internet, without that it I'd think I was good.
Would you suggest jump squats or box jumps?
You know there are organizations out there that have already done the math work for you. Look up NSCA general guidelines as far as what it considers "muscular endurance", "hypertrophy", "strength", "power"........etc.....
Power exercises done for 10 reps is no longer very powerful......don't let Crossfit confuse you. The loading parameters for a "power" exercise tend to fall into one of two categories: 1. A very light load (as you suggest) moved very explosively such as jumps and MB throws or 2. A moderate load moved as quick as possible (clean, snatch....or any exercise really that's performed for speed over few reps such as a 50% RM back squat performed for 3-5 reps slowly down then explode out of the hole).
Alan
get springy with it wrote:
Would you suggest jump squats or box jumps?
Jump squats aren't bad, runners are generally light enough that the landing isn't too strenuous.
Box jumps are ok if you can keep your ego out of it...doing box jumps at 80-90% of your best height are fine, but the only good that can come of constantly trying to set new box jump records is the pleasant belly laugh we will get from watching the fail clips on youtube of it.
To avoid alienating females, use the proper name for the "good girl bad girl" machine.