Not Done Yet: Mary Cain Has Been Injured in 2017 - Planning On Racing Again in 2018

long time lurker wrote:

Any agents want to chime in on here? I imagine as big of a talent she was she was smart enough to get a contract with no reductions in it or very few. She probably could be terminated for just quitting however. So they say she's hurt to keep the $$$.

Agent doesn't want to tell letsrun the injury either cause then Nike has something to look into. Just be vagued. Either that or he's tired of them asking about Mo and the NOP but then why would he respond at all?

That's not being smart. That's being a liar.

Britbear wrote:

All you americans and your form. Don't y'all realise you can't tell how efficient someone's stride is just by looking at them?

I think Cain just doesn't have the engine. Sure she can probably get down to the times she was running before, but not much faster.

Also, I think talent is being used in the wrong sense in this discussion. I wouldn't define talent as ability at a young age or as good fitness on a relatively low amount of training. Talent = ability and Cain's talent clearly isn't world class. Let me know if she knocks 7-8 seconds of her 1500m time.

"All you americans and your form". Rude

takealook wrote:

Britbear wrote:

All you americans and your form. Don't y'all realise you can't tell how efficient someone's stride is just by looking at them?

I think Cain just doesn't have the engine. Sure she can probably get down to the times she was running before, but not much faster.

Also, I think talent is being used in the wrong sense in this discussion. I wouldn't define talent as ability at a young age or as good fitness on a relatively low amount of training. Talent = ability and Cain's talent clearly isn't world class. Let me know if she knocks 7-8 seconds of her 1500m time.

"All you americans and your form". Rude

Sorry hadn't finished that post...

Your first sentence is really rude and a stunningly sweeping - and insulting -statement against 300+ million Americans (and I'm not an American by the way). No need for that sort of thing.

Re your Talent = ability statement. How many female runners have her PBs in the 800, 1500 and 5000 (at any age)? Mary Cain is clearly extraordinarily 'talented' no matter how you define the word. Her youth made those PR/PB times phenomenal (define 'phenomenal' as you will, but I think making a world final at 17 years of age is pretty damn 'phenomenal'). Some physical issues (weight mainly) probably (+ strength physically and mentally) need to be tackled if she is ever to achieve times better than those she already holds.

We shall see if she has the right combination to move on from here. I wouldn't be surprised if she turns it around, manages her weight (late teens/early twenties can be hard for girls, particularly if she has been put on the pill, which causes weight gain in a lot of girls) + gains the physical and mental strength required.

I'd argue that Cain just matured early to a fairly high level but not phenomenal. Even if she gets back to where she was she won't win anything with those times. She'll have to still get much better.

It is fun to have her back again. She reminds me of Galen Rupp looking at her looks like(like a smaller twin sister of him). That is probably subconsciously why literally she is held so high. Although I'm not sure she will get to become the female equivalent of him in the next few years. We will have to wait and see what she is like on her return. Look at Bekele in 2011, he was off for literally a year and a half and suddenly bounced back to be the best 10k in the world again. 26:43 is the fastest time run this decade. I wonder can Mary Cain do the same, but of course she will never reach his level. Much like Bekele's next year world marathon record, she will be something to look forward to next year hopefully.

Hope she can mix it up with the best of them again. And hope she is happy.

frenchy mcfrench face wrote:

not encouraging at all wrote:

What kind of injury takes you out for 15+ months?

ennui

It's like the French have their own word for everything!

weightist wrote:

Nope. Talent comprises the whole package. Being a certain shape with certain mechanics and power weight ratio is part of talent.

When that changes permanently it eats into the talent level.

It really is no different from aging.

Cain trained a certain way and performed well and then training stopped working for her.

Obviously this is a semantic debate, but your definition of talent is both idiosyncratic and largely pointless. If talent were "the whole package" then nobody would talk about talent. We'd just talk about how fast someone is, because that's the objective result of the whole package. The term "talent" is generally understood to mean innate ability that cannot be learned or altered by training. So mechanics, weight, etc. are most definitely not aspects of talent.

I don't think anyone would dispute that "talented" people sometimes wash out early in their careers, for a variety of reasons, but that isn't typically understood as talent "disappearing."

From what I hear she developed multiple stress fractures during her initial comeback this year and it was decided to shut it down for the year and slowly build back. John Henwood’s a good coach, if anyone can get her back he can.

yasss wrote:

Rick Sanchez wrote:

Good for her!

Can't wait to see what she can do.

Agreed. This is very exciting news. Hope she takes things slow. Crazy to think she's just 21 since she obviously burst on the scene so young.

Exciting news would be racing again not talking about it.

Yes, talent is innate ability but innate ability does disappear. It's no different from a genius getting Alzheimers's.

If Cain can't run fast on innate ability anymore then logically her talent must be eroded, no?

Not sure why you would say talent can't be altered by training. Isn't that how anyone gets better?

15+ months may be the amount of time to make sure that all of al sals drugs leave her system. get a clean slate. start fresh.

haven't we established that 'form' means nothing? After watching all these awful looking Kenyans clean up?

I hope Mary returns full force and does great! More importantly, I hope she stays in college until she graduates.

Go Mary!

The tide is high but she's hanging on. She's going to be the number one. She's not the kind of girl, who gives up just like that. Oh no. I now literally think she will be a female version of Rupp just thinking about it farther. She looks like her twin so will probably end up similar achievements. Number one american girl but obviously far from Bekele(Ethiopia).

I wonder if this would be a good opportunity for her to consider moving up in distance? I recall Ron Clarke who started off as a highly promising middle distance runner, before he took time off to work and start a family. Then when he resumed his running in his mid 20s, he started doing higher mileage and switched to distance track with great success.

I think Cain could likewise parlay that natural speed of hers into becoming an ace 5000 meter runner.

So there is a parallel universe case to reference here: Jessica Judd, UK, who is a year older than Mary and underwent a similar setback. She ran 2:00/4:09 age 17, and 1:59 age 18, only to regress for a few years. This year she has re-emerged on the international scene with a healthy 4:03 PB at WCs and a some decent 3K/5K PBs of 8:43/15:34. So there is hope if Mary wants to find it.

http://www.thepowerof10.info/athletes/profile.aspx?athleteid=28247

I would not be surprised to see Mary back at an elite level. However, if she is just starting serious training, it might take an entire season before she is putting up decent marks and probably 2 years before she gets close to her 2014 level. It going to take a lot of hard work and she will hit some bumps along the way. When I look at her 2015 body compared to 2013, her performances that year appear to be a classic example of puberty. The puberty likely stated in 2014 and took full effect when she took some time off at the end of 2014. Unfortunately, Mary had set such a high mark that the public and perhaps Mary herself didn't allow a season or 2 to adjust to her new body. Mary Decker, Ruth Wysocki and Kim Gallagher all took a step backwards at the exact same age Mary did. Its not uncommon for youth phenoms to get injured in their late teens and when they take some time off, delayed puberty comes on in a rush. They gain 5 pounds, which is barely perceptible to the public, but when you only weight 110 pounds, it feels like you are wearing a weight vest. Kim Gallagher ran 2 flat as a H.S. senior and didn't run that time again until 2 years later. She almost completely disappeared at age 19, the same situation for Mary Decker and people predicted burnout, but they were struggling with some injuries and puberty...not unlike Mary Cain. The good news for Mary Cain is, a mature female body is structurally stronger, has higher ferritin/iron levels and it is easier to put on muscle by converting fat to muscle.

SlowFatMaster wrote:

I wonder if, besides messing with her form, Salazar had Cain run her easy days too fast. Mo Farah and Galen Rupp seem to tolerate it well, but others, maybe not so much.

Probably. IIRC, she ran her easy days @ 6:30