Shameful to tank the meet with so few on the schedule for the varsity as it is.
Shameful to tank the meet with so few on the schedule for the varsity as it is.
At the West Coast men's meet, #2 nationally ranked BYU men got a perfect score, going 1-2-3-4-5. The team that got second was the #3 team in the country according to the coaches' poll, Portland (Portland is #6 in the LetsRun.com Fan Polls).
BYU is very, very good. But the thing I don't think we've ever seen before is not BYU putting up a perfect score, but rather Portland not even trying to beat them by not sending out its best team.
The cross country regular season is totally watered down with teams not trying in many meets, but I don't think I've seen this extended to a conference meet before.
Portland ran its 2 best runners from the Wisconsin meet but sat its #3, #4, #5, and #6 runners from Wisconsin. Now, it's highly unlikely that many guys got injured/sick the week of the race.
Jon Gault directed me to a Flotrack interview after Wisconsin where Portland coach Rob Conner said, "I'm not looking forward to it (winning conference). That's not really on my concern list... I'm not a conference meet guy. I like other meets. I like regionals and nationals... Our challenge will be just to see how many guys we can get in their top 7."
He then added something that was dead on the money, " They (BYU) could score 15 points on us even. [I have] no concern about winning."
Teams can do whatever they want, but I thought conference meets were sacred. Put your best out there and go at it.
What do you guys think of this?
The funny thing is even if Portland ran it's "A" team BYU might have put 5 in front of them because Portland did run its #1 and #2 from Wisconsin. Is it tanking if the result would be the same?
Interview I talked about here:
wejo wrote:
What do you guys think of this?
The funny thing is even if Portland ran it's "A" team BYU might have put 5 in front of them because Portland did run it's #1 and #2 from Wisconsin. Is it tanking if the result would be the same?
I 100% agree with the poster below (assuming there wasn't some large does of food poisoning, etc. Jonathan Gault is reaching out Conner for comment).
Someone who knows wrote:
Shameful to tank the meet with so few on the schedule for the varsity as it is.
Most track and field/xc meets are not popular for the same reason that a pres-season NFL game isn't popular - they are exhibitions. A conference meet isn't an exhibition.
What makes the sport so much fun is when things matter. Your conference meet HAS to matter.
If UP needs to take a meet off, it should be the regionals - that's solely about qualifying. Conference should be about winning.
I don't want to hear about how teams are already doing this in the regular season (Harvard basically lost to Yale by not running their stars in track last year). A conference meet isn't the regular season. For most teams, conference is more important than NCAAs obviously as most teams aren't even going to NCAAs.
Yeah, I don't particularly agree with the mindset of taking it easy at conference championships but the coach will do what he deems best for his athletes. I do think, however, that there may have been a chance for Portland to sneak a guy or two into BYU's top 5 had they ran their full A squad.
Mentally, going into the race, I can imagine Portland's 1-2 knowing they are on the battlefield alone and that probably hampered their performance even if slightly. Either way, BYU was the clear winner today and will give NAU a show, come Nationals.
If a college basketball coach tanked a conference tournament game, there would be repurcussions. Maybe a firing and maybe an FBI investigation for point shaving.
And people wonder why our sport isn't popular at all.
One thing to factor in is until BYU joined the conference Portland had won 32 straight conference titles. Sure Portland was good most of that time, but this wasn't like Arkansas' streak of conference titles under McDonnell, they could win without putting out a very good team.
Poor loser, comes to mind. Portland decided they couldn't win, so after 32 Conference wins, Conference isn't important anymore.....ha, ha.
What a joke our sport is turning into. Don't race your top guys early, don't race them late, run some stupid pre-meet to gain points to qualify for NCAA and hide out the rest of the time. Then someone gets hurt or sick and it's "wait until next year, Freddy. Boy, we will really be good then."
LetsRun.com wrote:
One thing to factor in is until BYU joined the conference Portland had won 32 straight conference titles. Sure Portland was good most of that time, but this wasn't like Arkansas' streak of conference titles under McDonnell, they could win without putting out a very good team.
This is a good point. Also, they still got second while holding guys out, so it isn't as if this is a super competitive conference meet anyway. I think it's reasonable to assume they didn't expect to contend with BYU anyway, so they figured they'd rest up and be better prepared for when they have a better shot at winning-nationals. I'm not sure I agree with that thinking, but it's kind of understandable.
It's terrible that teams do this. At least they did it and still got second in a race they could not have won at full strength anyhow. When teams do this and lose, it can totally jack up the at large seeds when regionals comes around. Karma is cyclical though, so maybe it will come around and bite them in the rear someday.
It could be that Portland's top two runners weren't even going 100%, maybe they were treating it as a workout or had run big mileage this week leading up into the race.
LetsRun.com wrote:
One thing to factor in is until BYU joined the conference Portland had won 32 straight conference titles. Sure Portland was good most of that time, but this wasn't like Arkansas' streak of conference titles under McDonnell, they could win without putting out a very good team.
This is the important element. Connor has almost always used the conference meet as a chance to let the JV guys get some shine, and maybe figure out the back end of his lineup for Regionals/NCAAs. So, not only has it never been a priority or that important of a race for him, he has trained his top guys through the meet and developed a plan over the decades that doesnt involve WCCs and emphasizes Regionals. He is also a pretty particular guy, who has developed a successful program under unique circumstances. To expect him to start caring about a conference meet now, and altering his well-proven approach, just because BYU joined for purposes of boosting the conference's basketball profile, is unrealistic.
I’ve yet to hear any of you say why conference actually matters outside of pride. I don’t know the NCAA system very well so I have to ask sincerely, what bearing does today’s meet have on their post-season?
asdasfsdf wrote:
It could be that Portland's top two runners weren't even going 100%, maybe they were treating it as a workout or had run big mileage this week leading up into the race.
And I'm positive that BYU peaked for this race.
joedirt wrote:
And I'm positive that BYU peaked for this race.
LOL did you see how easy they ran? Linkletter was straight chillin as were Clinger and Young at least. I'm sure the guy who won ran ahead as strategy to put it in the bag in case Portland was anywhere close up front and to guarantee and easy 1-2-3-4-5.
People have been sayin they peaked for their home meet, Dellinger, AND Prenats. Newsflash: they're still not tired. That indicates a smart, long lasting season in store for them if you ask me. Now when they win NCAAs in a few weeks y'all are gonna say they peaked too early for this decade. Haha what's next?
BYU WILL NEVER HAVE A SINGLE RUNNER WIN ANOTHER RACE EVER AGAIN FOR THE REST OF FOREVER CUZ THEY PEAKED TOO EARLY TO WIN 2017 XC NCAAs. You heard it here first folks
Honestly, I just feel BYU's team is really good this year. They've been putting up incredible team results all season.
3 hard races in 3 weeks (conference, regionals, nationals) is why Rob Conner and UP did this.
The Pilots have a chance to place high at NCAAs, why f*** it up "going to the well" at a conference meet that doesn't mean much.
The only teams that should focus on conference are teams not going to nationals.
nationals > conference wrote:
3 hard races in 3 weeks (conference, regionals, nationals) is why Rob Conner and UP did this.
The Pilots have a chance to place high at NCAAs, why f*** it up "going to the well" at a conference meet that doesn't mean much.
The only teams that should focus on conference are teams not going to nationals.
Good point. BYU shouldn't have even gotten on the plane then. Why bother about conference when NCAAs is all that matters?
Yes, it's three hard races in three weeks, but every Power 5 team has to deal with that. Mark Wetmore somehow figured out how to win a few national titles at Colorado without sandbagging his conference meet. Same with Dave Smith at OK State.
nationals > conference wrote:
The Pilots have a chance to place high at NCAAs, why f*** it up "going to the well" at a conference meet that doesn't mean much.
Your point is tautological. Conference doesn't mean much because Portland has decided that it doesn't mean much by not racing their strongest team.
Why does a race matter? Because athletes and coaches decide it matters. If UP took conference seriously, it would mean a lot more. And with two great programs in the WCC in UP and BYU, there would be the chance for a terrific rivalry to blossom.
Elephantiasis in the room wrote:
I’ve yet to hear any of you say why conference actually matters outside of pride. I don’t know the NCAA system very well so I have to ask sincerely, what bearing does today’s meet have on their post-season?
No bearing on the post-season, but most programs do take pride in conference meet performances.
Just as importantly, university athletic directors take notice of conference meet results. They can make or break a coach's career. A coach might lose his job if he couldn't beat enough teams at the conference meet. Of course, that doesn't really apply to Portland's case here.
Seriously, since he copped to it ahead of time, it seems like something the conference should be able to fine a program for pulling. Imagine the Chicago Bulls benching a healthy Michael Jordan in the first round of the playoffs. Would that have been accepted? He** no! But if Portland beats BYU at Nationals, we may need to reconsider.
nationals > conference wrote:
3 hard races in 3 weeks (conference, regionals, nationals) is why Rob Conner and UP did this.
The Pilots have a chance to place high at NCAAs, why f*** it up "going to the well" at a conference meet that doesn't mean much.
The only teams that should focus on conference are teams not going to nationals.
^This. As someone who ran DII conference, regionals and Nats all four years, it is extremely difficult to run your best 10K at Nats, when you have run a highly competitive 8K and 10K the preceding two weeks. My team and I did it because we always needed to run all out at regionals to get into Nats.