Now it gets interesting, Zane Robertson's ex-girlfriend Betty Desalegn (Jama Aden athlete) is busted for Biological Passport

You are really mentally sick, having suspicions about clear situation and trying to manipulate facts inventing idiotic interpretations against any evidence.

This happens when you continue, like an idiot, to repeat the same post 1000 time, happens when you continue to put in your posts only one part of what I wrote outside the full context, happens when you want to instill doubt in people without any specific knowledge, inventing lies without any fundation for the "weak mind" of idiots like you.

When you speak about the EPO effect with Boulami, you forget that he was not born in altitude, didn't live in altitude and trained only a short part of the year in altitude, so he was an ELITE athlete not part of the category of subjects I speak about.

When you speak about Shaheen you clearly demonstrate how stupid, ignorant, arrogant, lier and not honest you are.

Shaheen stopped his activity immediately after winning, in 2006, both steeple and 5000m in the World Cup in Athens representing Africa. He had an impact against the door of a car (a women suddenly opened the door while Stephen was one meter from the car, and he could not avoid the impact with his knee) at the beginning of October, when was in training for the Asian Games in Doha, and had to stop completely any training for 7 months. After that period, he started again in 2007, but never could have periods of training longer than 1 month because every time the problem in the knee came again.

In January 2008 he had a surgery in Germany, and we went in Ireland for rehab, to the hystorical physio of Paula Radcliffe (Gerard Hartman) in Limerick. We remained there for one month, but, in spite of the surgery, never Stephen could have again training periods longer than 2 months, and was forced to stop his activity when still very Young.

You preferred sport is to throw mud on every Kenyan of top level, and of course on every coach having, in his career, the opportunity to work with them, trying to blacken their name (and the name of Kenya as Country) in order to put Flagstaff at the top of the World (very nice place where I was 3 times for training, but not in competition with Iten or Kaptagat or Kapsabet).

You want to manipulate every my word never looking at the full paragraph, every time repeating the same stories (dr. Rosa, Claudio Berardelli, Schwazer, EPO, Italian coaches, Ferrari, Armstrong etc...), many times writing a lot of stupidity because don't know the reality of the situation, but only what some newspapers wrote, riding the general feeling about doping.

Yes, your nickname is appropriate, but not complete.

You need to be "dishonest, lier, ignorant and arrogant mindweak".

Strawman discussion. I never made that claim. Your claim of "lack of fast times from all non-Africans..." is ludicrous and has been debunked several times. Examples on the shorter long distances include the sub-13 and European record from drug cheat Baumann and the 14:23 from drug cheat

Shobukhova (dipping under the pre-EPO WR by 10 seconds), and on the longer distances the world record from da Costa (bettering the pre-EPO WR from an East African) and the world records of "likely doping" Radcliffe.

A correct claim would be that East Africans as a whole are a lot faster than the rest of the world, except for "likely doping" Radcliffe and banned drug cheat Shobukhova. That however cannot be related to your unique claim that EPO does not work for elite runners. Normally, reasons such as different culture and gens are discussed, plus different problems in the 70s and 80s in Africa such as war and famine, whereas blood doping and steroids were common in Europe and America. Examples are abundant.

Not at age 32 like Jeptoo. For example, Radcliffe - after getting flagged the 2nd time - turned from a 2:15/2:17 runner to a 2:23 runner at that age.

Have we now? What are your examples, with what evidence?

I recall the opposite, namely that altitude stay is already built in, namely by different thresholds. And with the thousands of runners at altitude every year, I can only come up with 2 cases, where such a claim has been made. So that isn't exactly a common scenario - even if you would know a few more cases. Do you?

In both of these cases, the first expert consulted after the ABP violation judged that doping was the most likely case, not altitude, which triggered certain follow-up procedures for both Radcliffe and Jager.

That is the IAAF's claim; UCI thinks otherwise. And again, an expert reviewed each case before it was placed on the "likely doping list", as evident from the regulations and the fact, that everyone on the leaked "likely doping list" has different recommended follow-up actions.

The classic and most obvious case, is the disappearance the Moroccans since the ABP (with one notable exception, Makhloufi, Ramzi^2 and maybe Iguider). Look at the 1999 5000m final.

You're a dumb person, OP.

asdfdd wrote:

You're a dumb person, OP.

Huh???

Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:

The classic and most obvious case, is the disappearance the Moroccans since the ABP (with one notable exception, Makhloufi, Ramzi^2 and maybe Iguider). Look at the 1999 5000m final.

...with makhloufi "taking the year off" after being a double medalist in Rio. Suuuuuuuure. Did the same thing in 2013 post London gold as well.

Erythrocytic Sabotage wrote:

Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:

The classic and most obvious case, is the disappearance the Moroccans since the ABP (with one notable exception, Makhloufi, Ramzi^2 and maybe Iguider). Look at the 1999 5000m final.

...with makhloufi "taking the year off" after being a double medalist in Rio. Suuuuuuuure. Did the same thing in 2013 post London gold as well.

Makhloufi is Algerian ...

im so glad you think you can cyber bully me with insults and hatred so nice of you big boy.

keep claiming all you want that EPO doesnt work on top tier kenyans, keep calling me an idiot all you want, call me stupid all you want, insult me all you want, call me ignorant and arrogant all you want.

kenyans get busted and you try your hardest to make excuses, calling them weak minded, and only took it one time, and sub elite....rosa had no idea that some of his runners took EPO, and then they only did it that one time too...

im not ignorant but your arrogance that im some moron about the realities of PED usage. do i believe east africans from altitude have a genetic disposition for distance events? yes....but not to the extreme that has exploded since euro coaches with PED knowledge came there in the 90s. just like the TdF was found to be a huge farce of a huge majority of the bikers on PEDs, and lance never testing positive, this era will one day as well be found to be a farce. to have your mind set that east africans are SUPERIOR in all ways of running is racist and to deny EPO works for them perpetuates the myth. when you continue the lie defending them with excuses is annoying and i will never accept your lies.

when shaheen cant run as fast as a guy busted for EPO but faster than so many others how does that look? how the 5k WR lasted for so long until the EPO era, then it was dismantled multiple times is something to look at, and the fact that after all the EPO busts, bio passport how many fast times have happened in the 1500? 3000? 5k?

your excuse is the runners followed the money, which has some truth to it. more money in the marathon, more incentive for coaches and agents to get a stable of good runners and get them on the sauce. something you claim would never happen, would never happen and there is no need for it. the NCAA football and basketball do illegal things all the time with athletes, and you act as if coaches and agents dont see east africa as a money pot?

kiprop fell off the map after aden and rosa ordeals....nope nothing to see here. diababa and souleiman fell off...nope nothing to see here.

and you claim all i do is call out kenyans? really do you not read LR? i know paula sauced, i know rupp was on the sauce and now is off....i know flagstaff was the EPO hot bed for the US, i know EPO is used by sprinters even though there are deniers that it has any affect on the energy systems of a sprinter.

i have no doubts aouita was on PEDs. but at least back then it was a good variety of who could win....then boom it became the kenyan invasion. then you have al sal claiming the only way whites could compete is if we took EPO....in your mind that proves kenyans are superior, but in my mind it shows that al sal was figuring that they were already on the sauce.

talk all the sh*t you want to me and insult me, but the harder the crack downs in kenya and ethiopia occur the slower the times will become, and it has already begun. 2:03 guys will become 2:06 guys, 2:05-6 guys will become 2:08-9 guys. but yeah EPO doesnt work.

I'd say that you're the one doing the bullying. He puts his name on his posts. You don't. YOU are the one that constantly brings this sane thing up...over and over and over again. How you think you're being bullied now is completely beyond me. Just stop, dude. Seriously. It is waaaaay past its expiration date.

when he admits EPO works on elite kenyans i will post with my real name for life

mindweak wrote:

when he admits EPO works on elite kenyans i will post with my real name for life

Even if he believed that, I don't think he (or any coach for that fact) could admit that if he is paid/compensated by their athletic federations?

nit picker wrote:

Erythrocytic Sabotage wrote:

...with makhloufi "taking the year off" after being a double medalist in Rio. Suuuuuuuure. Did the same thing in 2013 post London gold as well.

Makhloufi is Algerian ...

True that ⤴(I dropped my tablet while typing originally and sent it on me) there has been a massive drop off in influence of North Africans since the ABP was introduced, with the exception of Makhloufi. Not too many years ago Moroccans completely dominated the 5000m for the entire the season (this includes Mourhit and Sghyr). These were seasons with many running sub 13. Strangely they have just vanished. To quote Coach Jan, just Magic.

Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:

nit picker wrote:

Makhloufi is Algerian ...

True that ⤴(I dropped my tablet while typing originally and sent it on me) there has been a massive drop off in influence of North Africans since the ABP was introduced, with the exception of Makhloufi. Not too many years ago Moroccans completely dominated the 5000m for the entire the season (this includes Mourhit and Sghyr). These were seasons with many running sub 13. Strangely they have just vanished. To quote Coach Jan, just Magic.

But they're still trying. Morroco has the 2nd most ABP violations (10), ahead of Turkey (9), but significantly behind Russia's world leading 35. Morocco is obviously not doping within the parameters of the ABP, and are pushing the envelope with higher blood values and getting flagged more often than most other countries. No ABP violations found for Algerian runners, but a few doping positives from lesser known runners over the years (mainly androgens).

mindweak wrote:

when he admits EPO works on elite kenyans i will post with my real name for life

Putz.

short version of Renato's argument is that altitude and training can generate the maximum useful blood values but that even these numbers actually DECREASE when the athletes reach their max performance capacity, so that EPO's higher values than normal do not result in improvement for athletes who have reached the max already and could only decline somewhat from the greater risk of heart attack and stroke from their suddenly sludge like blood.

I doubt all that is true.

to be fair kiprop didnt fall off the map because of the rosa scandal, he fell of the map because he killed a woman while driving ricklessly and was dealing with the aftermath

kenyan doping wrote:

to be fair kiprop didnt fall off the map because of the rosa scandal, he fell of the map because he killed a woman while driving ricklessly and was dealing with the aftermath

Also, it's a lie to claim Kiprop literally fell off the map. He was number one in his event for ten straight years, which no other distance runner can claim, and father time is finally catching up. 2017 was his first off year since 2007. Let's see how he does in the 5k.

Passport Era Doping wrote:

No ABP violations found for Algerian runners, but a few doping positives from lesser known runners over the years (mainly androgens).

I suspect that WADA, IAAF and UCI etc have gone all in to restrict significant volumes of EPO and infusions, but have taken their eye of the ball regarding muscle/strength building PEDs, hence the fast times in 100m-800m events over the last 8-10 years which are superior to times done by known cheats (Greene, Montgomery etc).

The magic is in the microdose ?