Strategy to go sub-2:40 at NYC

Why do you think the way to the attack the course is different for a 2:59 runner vs a 2:39 runner? All the same concepts from that thread apply.

Course strategy is the same wrote:

Why do you think the way to the attack the course is different for a 2:59 runner vs a 2:39 runner? All the same concepts from that thread apply.

Great, thanks for the thoughtful reply. Anyone else?

Bumping this morning. I think these threads are a little different because OP on the other one looks to be in 2:50-55 shape with a 1:20 half. I guess the logic still holds but I was thinking it would be better to conserve the first half and go through in 1:21ish and then try to come back quicker vs rolling out in 1:19 with even splits.

NERunner053 wrote:

Bumping this morning. I think these threads are a little different because OP on the other one looks to be in 2:50-55 shape with a 1:20 half. I guess the logic still holds but I was thinking it would be better to conserve the first half and go through in 1:21ish and then try to come back quicker vs rolling out in 1:19 with even splits.

still don't understand why you think the strategy should be any different

With your mileage and 1:15 half, you should be able to run a flat 2:37 +/- 1 min. So go out at 2:38 pace and leave room to fade in the last few K, since they are "hilly".

While I technically ran a 3:14, it is the equivalent to sub 2:40 for a guy so here is my advice:

Take it easy on the "Staten Island Bridge" (first two miles) but don't go crazy about it. First mile is always slow, 2nd mile is always fast. Try to go for even splits from the third mile.

Generally, I would go for slightly negative splits. The psychological effect of passing so many runners that are fading on the 2nd half (mostly men) is awesome.

Good luck and report back!

tx_running_girl wrote:

While I technically ran a 3:14, it is the equivalent to sub 2:40 for a guy so here is my advice:

Take it easy on the "Staten Island Bridge" (first two miles) but don't go crazy about it. First mile is always slow, 2nd mile is always fast. Try to go for even splits from the third mile.

Generally, I would go for slightly negative splits. The psychological effect of passing so many runners that are fading on the 2nd half (mostly men) is awesome.

Good luck and report back!

Wow you must think highly of yourself if you think a 3:14 converts to sub 2:40 for men. I'm sure all the hobby joggers fall for that and give you a big high five!

Rightttt wrote:

tx_running_girl wrote:

While I technically ran a 3:14, it is the equivalent to sub 2:40 for a guy so here is my advice:

Take it easy on the "Staten Island Bridge" (first two miles) but don't go crazy about it. First mile is always slow, 2nd mile is always fast. Try to go for even splits from the third mile.

Generally, I would go for slightly negative splits. The psychological effect of passing so many runners that are fading on the 2nd half (mostly men) is awesome.

Good luck and report back!

Wow you must think highly of yourself if you think a 3:14 converts to sub 2:40 for men. I'm sure all the hobby joggers fall for that and give you a big high five!

I had to LOL pretty hard, too. 3:14 is more like equivalent to 2:56ish IMO. To be fair a 3:14 might place you as high as a 2:40 bc there aren't that many "fast" (relative to world class times) women when you compare it to the men's field.

marathonenthousiast wrote:

With your mileage and 1:15 half, you should be able to run a flat 2:37 +/- 1 min. So go out at 2:38 pace and leave room to fade in the last few K, since they are "hilly".

I was thinking even slower given NYC being a tough course. Something like 1:20-21 half pace through 16 & then picking it up if I can.

tx_running_girl wrote:

While I technically ran a 3:14, it is the equivalent to sub 2:40 for a guy so here is my advice:

Take it easy on the "Staten Island Bridge" (first two miles) but don't go crazy about it. First mile is always slow, 2nd mile is always fast. Try to go for even splits from the third mile.

Generally, I would go for slightly negative splits. The psychological effect of passing so many runners that are fading on the 2nd half (mostly men) is awesome.

Good luck and report back!

Thanks for the advice!

The strategy for NY is universal. Go slow over the Verrazzano-Narrows bridge. Hit your pace or even a little quicker to bank some time in Brooklyn. That is the easiest part of the course. Take a break on the Queensboro Bridge. It is a beast going up and down. Don't be afraid to drop 20-30 seconds going up and do not try to get that time back going down. Back to a solid pace through Harlem. When you turn back to Central Park, be ready to hold with everything you have. 5th ave hill is long and comes just when you are really feeling bad. Central Park hills are shorter but steeper. You are not going to pick up your pace on this part of the course unless you are very well trained on hills. I think NY is at best an even split course but more likely a positive split given the demands from 5th ave through Central Park. Also, the field in NY is not fast. Things will really thin out at lot more than you may think running around 6 min mi. If you can find a group to hang with, it may be worth it even if they are a tad slower than what you want to run.

back in the MF day wrote:

Rightttt wrote:

Wow you must think highly of yourself if you think a 3:14 converts to sub 2:40 for men. I'm sure all the hobby joggers fall for that and give you a big high five!

I had to LOL pretty hard, too. 3:14 is more like equivalent to 2:56ish IMO. To be fair a 3:14 might place you as high as a 2:40 bc there aren't that many "fast" (relative to world class times) women when you compare it to the men's field.

Yeah, using age grading, 3:14 F ~= 2:56 M, at least for age 30. Even going by finishing place, it still doesn't work out. In 2016, the lowest placing

Agree with this: not sure that the advice you need is any different than the advice the sub-3:00 poster needed.

Also agree with this. I am shocked by the number of people who are telling you to plan to negative split. That is tough under ideal circumstances, and this course does not present ideal circumstances for a negative split for the reasons Precious Roy highlights.

I am not sure that I agree with this. I mean, every race has its dead spots where runners start to string out. I have experienced this in all three of my marathons (all big ones - NYC, Chicago and Boston). NYC was more competitive and had more people in my pace range (2:35 on a very windy day in 2014) than Chicago did (2:30), although not quite as many as Boston did (2:34).

Yep, great advice. Particularly if you get some wind, which makes this course even tougher because of the bridges.

Also, prepare for the mental letdown of running through the Bronx. It is a wasteland, and that is even more noticeable given the huge and supportive crowds that you experience for almost the entirety of Brooklyn (best crowds of the race in my opinion) and on First Avenue in Manhattan.

On the topic of crowd support, the wall of sound on First Ave in Manhattan is impressive, but the crowds on 4th Avenue in Brooklyn were the best crowds I've ever experienced in a race. They were like the crowds that you experience at the center of each of the little towns on the way into Boston, but they were that way for the entirety of the first 8 or 9 miles (until you get into an Orthodox Jewish neighborhood where the people literally make believe you are not there, which is really cool in its own way because of the contrast to what you experience right up to that point). I have to admit that I am a little biased as I am a Brooklyn native.

check these stats wrote:

back in the MF day wrote:

I had to LOL pretty hard, too. 3:14 is more like equivalent to 2:56ish IMO. To be fair a 3:14 might place you as high as a 2:40 bc there aren't that many "fast" (relative to world class times) women when you compare it to the men's field.

Yeah, using age grading, 3:14 F ~= 2:56 M, at least for age 30. Even going by finishing place, it still doesn't work out. In 2016, the lowest placing

Dumb LRC cut off my post. I'm too lazy to re-type the stats, but in short, even if we go by finishing place, sub-2:40 is more like 3:07 for females at NYCM. So sub-2:40 equals 3:14 seems totally incoherent.