Is anyone familiar with the running programs of schools in this Division 3 conference?
Is anyone familiar with the running programs of schools in this Division 3 conference?
Going to have to be more specific.
Most of the schools in the NCAC are very decent academically.
Wabash is men only and in the midst of a sexual scandal.
Oberlin and Kenyon are the top two academic colleges in Ohio, and Oberlin is very liberal.
Ohio Wesleyan is pretty easy to get into, but the academics are rigorous there compared to how easy it is to get in, so many students who barely get in have to drop out.
Hiram is at the low end of this group academically.
For track and field, Ohio Wesleyan has had the best men's program on average for the last 20 years. They are pretty good at CC too.
No track or CC for men or women at Hiram.
Allegheny and Depaw have good CC teams for both men and women.
Wait, is Wooster not in that conference anymore? Or do you not know much about their team?
yeah, they are still in the conference, I'm not sure why they weren't mentioned. We raced against them a few weeks ago. They are a good team.
Yes, familiar with some of them. But what do you want to know?
They're all small liberal arts-oriented schools. Enrollments are about 1500-2500 generally. Except Wabash is
Weird, my long post got cut off... alas, don't have time to repeat. Basically: some really really good academic schools, mostly liberal arts. Not rich schools. Not blue chip (D1) level recruits, but lots of solid runners and they get to compete for conference titles and D3 national qualifying. Can see recent performances here:
Most of the midwestern liberal arts universities are grossly expensive with little benefit to the student. I don't understand why one would choose one of these little schools, unless they are paying your way. Once you get 50 miles away, nobody has ever heard of them, with the exception of Oberlin, and their reputation may help or hurt, depending on the situation. The only very expensive universities I would consider are the ones with obvious national or regional name value, coupled with an active and aggressive alumni network. None of the schools mentioned can offer any of that.
By way of example, if a College of Wooster kid is interviewing for a job in Cleveland, they will have zero advantage over the kids from CSU, Kent State or Akron, not to mention the highly competitive locals from Case Western and John Carroll.
I don't understand the appeal of the little midwestern schools, especially for those paying full fare.
I should have mentioned this before, but I've ran around 4:30 and 9:47 and am looking to go to a smaller school, probably in Ohio or Indiana. And based on research, schools in this conference seem better academically than some in the OAC conference. Does anyone know anything about the coaches at these schools?
In response to "Bad Moves":
In my longer post, before I somehow lost it, I wrote that: Aas faculty at a top-level research university, I love the applicants from these types of colleges -- and that was true long, long before I ever sent any offspring there. 3 of my first 4 hires 25 years ago were from Oberlin (2) and Grinnell (not NCAC, but similar). When my department looks at grad school applications, we pay a great deal of attention to strong candidates from these schools (this year I happen to have two fantastic applicants from Kenyon, to work on PhD's in my lab). They're characteristically broadly educated, highly curious, and deep thinkers - just what we want in scientists-in-training.
Now, I'm a believer that a student can get a good education at many schools, and the large state schools (at least the flagships) offer a fantastic variety of opportunities. So, a well-motivated individual can get a great, and highly specific, education at those places. Nothing against that at all! (And some of those schools have good running clubs, if you can't make their varsity -- but I'd say it's not the same as competing for conference titles, etc). And Case Western - excellent choice! It's a bit in-between the large research school and the small liberal arts schools. So it depends on what kind of atmosphere / culture you like.
As to the money issue: The schools within NCAC are not "rich" compared to the schools they compete with. All have endowments under $1b. This may be due in part to name recognition, and in part to the fields that their alumni tend to pursue - academics, nonprofits, social welfare -- not careers notorious for producing billionaire donors. So if your "return on investment" index only considers salary within 5 years of graduating, maybe you should look elsewhere. Not that there are no examples of quickly rich alumni, but there may be easier paths to that (Wall St firms have their list of "name" schools). Anyway, it can be true that these schools don't offer quite as much financial aid or merit awards - but it's really a bit of crap shoot, varying by schools and applicants (I've seen this first-, second-, and third-hand). Apply for school and APPLY FOR FINANCIAL AID IMMEDIATELY as they sometimes "run out." That is, they're more inclined to be favorable early on.
As to athletics: Most of these schools would be happy to take a 4:30 / 9:47 recruit. Even if you don't develop much you would be welcome, but with hard training you can get as good as you would anywhere else. (Maybe not true for people who need THE highest level of competition).
Regarding coaches: I only know one of them personally, and I'd highly recommend - but the others could be good too, for all I know. You can try looking at their records over X # of years, but keep in mind that can be as influenced by recruiting as actual coaching. Still, a team full of comparable athletes often coach each other as much or more than the coaches.
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