Was Ryan Hall even THAT good?

macdaddy wrote:

Houston Half (2007) - Win! - 59:43 - broke the American record

London (2007) - 7th, 2:08:24, the American record for a first London (2008) - 5th, 2:06:17.

Oly Trials (2008) - Win!

Olympics (2008) - 10th - losing by 6+ minutes

Boston (2009) - 3rd, 2:09:40 - losing by 1 minute

Boston (2010) - 4th, 2:08:41 - losing by 3+ minutes

Boston (2011) - 4th, 2:04:58*

Oly Trials (2012) - 2nd - Meb dominates

Oly (2012) - DROP

I'm sure I missed some results, but c'mon... Outside of the Oly Trials (don't count obviously), only ONE(!!!!) top 3 finish in his career at the marathon distance??

I'd take Galen's marathon career already!! That's not even factoring in his track career.....

Thoughts?

Olympic Trials don't count??? What in blazin' you takkin at booy?

+1

When you apply the proper conversion factors to Galen's 2:09 PR, Galen has already run faster than 2:06:17/2:04:58 anyway.

Youth is wasted on the young wrote:

macdaddy wrote:

Houston Half (2007) - Win! - 59:43 - broke the American record

London (2007) - 7th, 2:08:24, the American record for a first London (2008) - 5th, 2:06:17.

Oly Trials (2008) - Win!

Olympics (2008) - 10th - losing by 6+ minutes

Boston (2009) - 3rd, 2:09:40 - losing by 1 minute

Boston (2010) - 4th, 2:08:41 - losing by 3+ minutes

Boston (2011) - 4th, 2:04:58*

Oly Trials (2012) - 2nd - Meb dominates

Oly (2012) - DROP

I'm sure I missed some results, but c'mon... Outside of the Oly Trials (don't count obviously), only ONE(!!!!) top 3 finish in his career at the marathon distance??

I'd take Galen's marathon career already!! That's not even factoring in his track career.....

Thoughts?

Olympic Trials don't count??? What in blazin' you takkin at booy?

You beat me to it. That's just plain dumb.

Of course he was good. Especially considering that most elite Americans struggled to run 2:11 (still the case today apart from Rupp.) That said he could have been even better if he hadn't always insisted on pushing the pace. I think just about every one of his marathons besides the Oly trials was a positive split.

It's still too early to call Rupp's marathon career greater. However if he runs London next year and beats Hall's 2:06:17 then it's no contest, Rupp is better. Or if he never chases a fast times but gets 2 or 3 more wins/podiums then I'd say Rupp still wins.

In particular, Ryan Hall was not as good at dodging competition as Rupp.

Very good 2007-2008, then started to decline.

Bizarre world wrote:

Youth is wasted on the young wrote:

Olympic Trials don't count??? What in blazin' you takkin at booy?

You beat me to it. That's just plain dumb.

It does not really matter if you win, place second or third in the Trials.

The point of the trials is to qualify with the least effort possible. You don't want to risk not qualifying, so going for the win is not necessarily stupid, but not the same as winning a actual big time marathon.

By the talk going on these days here at LRC comparing Hall and Rupp you would be led to believe that LRC drooled over Hall back in the day.

Nope, not the case.

Now: People are saying how much of a baller Hall was when he pushed the pace and Rupp running a slow pace shows how much better Hall was.

Then: Hall gets blasted for surging and everyone saying how he needs to tuck back in and run a nice even pace.

I will say the hatred for Rupp seems to be more rampant these days then it was for Hall back then. I assume that is because there is so much more jealousy, since Rupp is a WMM Champ and an Olympic medalist.

I'm a Rupp fan but he has to beat Hall's Boston 2:04 to put this discussion to rest. @alberto @philknight @rupp

Blatter wrote:

Bizarre world wrote:

You beat me to it. That's just plain dumb.

It does not really matter if you win, place second or third in the Trials.

The point of the trials is to qualify with the least effort possible. You don't want to risk not qualifying, so going for the win is not necessarily stupid, but not the same as winning a actual big time marathon.

I'm looking at the trials through the 'level of competition' lens... not a lot of talent... same applies to Galen's win.

But wasn't that 2:04 calculated out to be something like a 2:12 in normal Boston conditions (utilizing the standard LRC hater math in use at the time)?

Oh Geez wrote:

By the talk going on these days here at LRC comparing Hall and Rupp you would be led to believe that LRC drooled over Hall back in the day.

Nope, not the case.

Now: People are saying how much of a baller Hall was when he pushed the pace and Rupp running a slow pace shows how much better Hall was.

Then: Hall gets blasted for surging and everyone saying how he needs to tuck back in and run a nice even pace.

I will say the hatred for Rupp seems to be more rampant these days then it was for Hall back then. I assume that is because there is so much more jealousy, since Rupp is a WMM Champ and an Olympic medalist.

Agreed, people used to bash Hall all the time when he was active. In ten years from now once Rupp is retired and there is another US marathon star, Letsrun will be praising Rupp and bashing the new guy.

I just realized the very very sad part of that:

I will still probably be here reading the forums and this site will still look the same.

Rupp in only three races has a better marathon record than Hall and Ritz COMBINED. Proof that Alberto can outcoach God.

Thoughts? Was Ryan Hall even THAT good? I will respond with "Well, he could out-run you at the distance any day of the week, so does it even matter what you think?" And yes, when the Kenyans respect you in the distance, you ARE that good.

No, in 30 years this site will still look the same, but Hall will still be faster than Rupp ever was, and a few more guys will also be faster that Rupp. We'll view Rupp's time in marathons like we view the 90s, a throwaway decade where nobody worked hard enough to actually accomplish anything. They didn't run FAST enough to MEDAL or PODIUM anywhere, so it was pretty much a waste.

We'll use terms like "crafty" to describe how Salazar put Rupp in the right position to win stuff, while the rest of the world just got faster and faster.

Oh Geez wrote:

By the talk going on these days here at LRC comparing Hall and Rupp you would be led to believe that LRC drooled over Hall back in the day.

Nope, not the case.

Now: People are saying how much of a baller Hall was when he pushed the pace and Rupp running a slow pace shows how much better Hall was.

Then: Hall gets blasted for surging and everyone saying how he needs to tuck back in and run a nice even pace.

I will say the hatred for Rupp seems to be more rampant these days then it was for Hall back then. I assume that is because there is so much more jealousy, since Rupp is a WMM Champ and an Olympic medalist.

Watchu talking about Willis? Hall all but could walk on water around here 8-10 years ago. His stock went down after about 2011 and he actually started talking about, well practically walking on water while being coached by god, etc., while his times/performances kind of went downhill.

Right now Rupp has the Oly medal, which is a very big deal. Otherwise, Hall is still ahead. I'd call them fairly even. But if/when Rupp run a 2:06 or faster, wins a world major (with a full field), or another medal, then he'd be the better.

Anyway, Meb, Shorter still >> of those guys.

Beautiful Day wrote:

We'll view Rupp's time in marathons like we view the 90s, a throwaway decade where nobody worked hard enough to actually accomplish anything. They didn't run FAST enough to MEDAL or PODIUM anywhere, so it was pretty much a waste.

Except that Rupp HAS medaled and won, so your entire post is crap.

Hall > Rupp

Next thread please.