Sure, you see some pros that have traditional running backgrounds, but take a guy like Lionel Sanders who got into triathlon late in life, has awful form, and he can still run 2:45 at the end of an Ironman.
These guys don't do big mileage and don't have great running economy due to their lack of fast running. Is it just the overall aerobic volume that allows these times?
Juicy juice.
You should do some research on Lionel. He has run a decent half pb (around 1:06:30) and placed near the front of CIS XC champs when he was in University. Definitely has the run background to run 2:45. You clearly don't know what you are talking about.
Clearly that was a bad example, but the OP does have a point. There are lots of guys with a swim background, for instance, who only pick up running when they transition to triathlon relatively late in their athletic careers and still run fast marathons compensating for a lack of lifetime miles with sheer aerobic capacity. All that while being heavier than pure runners running similar times.
Since most runners are limited in volume for orthopedic overuse reasons, it kind of makes you wonder how much additional, and relatively injury free aerobic volume you could do with swimming or biking.
Genetics my friend 😉
Top triathletes run fast because they are genetic elites.
Most pros I know run around 80mpw so at least a decent amount. Add a huge engine and a lot of cross training and you will be fast.
Triathletes wrote:
Most pros I know run around 80mpw so at least a decent amount. Add a huge engine and a lot of cross training and you will be fast.
+1
And many triathletes train smarter than runners because they have more brains and money
Triathletes wrote:
Most pros I know run around 80mpw so at least a decent amount. Add a huge engine and a lot of cross training and you will be fast.
80mpw? Plus the time spent on the bike and
Swim training? What's the injury rate with the top competitors? How do they handle all that training and not end up in the trash heap? They've got to be the world's greatest athletes.
The cycling training is fairly easy on the body and recovery is easier. Swimming is even easier to recover from. The majority of their training is very easy, with a couple harder efforts per week in each discipline. I will never do a 8h ironman, but have a 9:07 pb and this is what a typical week looks like for me. The best pros are prob doing double this.
Monday : AM swim 60 min easy + 5 miles transport run
Pm 120 min easy bike
Tuesday : AM swim 60 min easy + 5 mile run
PM track workout 60 min
Wednesday : AM swim 60 min hard + 5 mile run
PM 90 min bike + 30 min brick
Thursday : AM run 90 min easy
Pm Bike 150 min threshold work
Friday: AM swim 60 min easy
PM : 120 min run easy
Saturday: AM swim 90 min
PM 240 min bike
Sunday : off with some plyo/stretching
I remember a behind the scenes on one of these dudes. The amount of drugs and supplements is comparable to cycling. Pure white privilege.
They do a lot of mileage.
I remember watching a doc about Vincent Luis and he put some serious mileage because running was his weakest leg. He trained so well that he finished second at the French cross-country championships.
Last I heard he wanted to compete in the triathlon and 5000m in the next olympics
(current best time 14'19)
Because a high VO2 max lets you do that even if you aren't a good runner as far as mechanics go.
Jens Voight just finished second in his debut tri.
VO2 kids, it matters.
VO2 is King wrote:
Because a high VO2 max lets you do that even if you aren't a good runner as far as mechanics go.
Jens Voight just finished second in his debut tri.
VO2 kids, it matters.
It doesn't take a high Vo2max to run 2:45. Hell, I ran mid 2:30's with a 51.
The reality is 2:45 isn't all that fast, and I don't say that as a typical letsrun douche. It's just the reality.
And yes, mid 2:30's isn't all that fast either.
feldman wrote:
VO2 is King wrote:Because a high VO2 max lets you do that even if you aren't a good runner as far as mechanics go.
Jens Voight just finished second in his debut tri.
VO2 kids, it matters.
It doesn't take a high Vo2max to run 2:45. Hell, I ran mid 2:30's with a 51.
The reality is 2:45 isn't all that fast, and I don't say that as a typical letsrun douche. It's just the reality.
And yes, mid 2:30's isn't all that fast either.
Of course it doesn't but that's how they do it despite not really being runners at all which is what I said above.
That's a ton of training. ~20 hours a week? Were you working at the same time?
Triathletes wrote:
The cycling training is fairly easy on the body and recovery is easier. Swimming is even easier to recover from. The majority of their training is very easy, with a couple harder efforts per week in each discipline. I will never do a 8h ironman, but have a 9:07 pb and this is what a typical week looks like for me. The best pros are prob doing double this.
Monday : AM swim 60 min easy + 5 miles transport run
Pm 120 min easy bike
Tuesday : AM swim 60 min easy + 5 mile run
PM track workout 60 min
Wednesday : AM swim 60 min hard + 5 mile run
PM 90 min bike + 30 min brick
Thursday : AM run 90 min easy
Pm Bike 150 min threshold work
Friday: AM swim 60 min easy
PM : 120 min run easy
Saturday: AM swim 90 min
PM 240 min bike
Sunday : off with some plyo/stretching
runrunrunaway wrote:
That's a ton of training. ~20 hours a week? Were you working at the same time?
Triathletes wrote:The cycling training is fairly easy on the body and recovery is easier. Swimming is even easier to recover from. The majority of their training is very easy, with a couple harder efforts per week in each discipline. I will never do a 8h ironman, but have a 9:07 pb and this is what a typical week looks like for me. The best pros are prob doing double this.
Monday : AM swim 60 min easy + 5 miles transport run
Pm 120 min easy bike
Tuesday : AM swim 60 min easy + 5 mile run
PM track workout 60 min
Wednesday : AM swim 60 min hard + 5 mile run
PM 90 min bike + 30 min brick
Thursday : AM run 90 min easy
Pm Bike 150 min threshold work
Friday: AM swim 60 min easy
PM : 120 min run easy
Saturday: AM swim 90 min
PM 240 min bike
Sunday : off with some plyo/stretching
During my triathlon days I was about 20 hours per week while working. I had the luxury of a very flexible work schedule and some evening duties that allowed me to ride in the middle of the day some days.
That job was a great job for training...
runrunrunaway wrote:
That's a ton of training. ~20 hours a week? Were you working at the same time?
Triathletes wrote:The cycling training is fairly easy on the body and recovery is easier. Swimming is even easier to recover from. The majority of their training is very easy, with a couple harder efforts per week in each discipline. I will never do a 8h ironman, but have a 9:07 pb and this is what a typical week looks like for me. The best pros are prob doing double this.
Monday : AM swim 60 min easy + 5 miles transport run
Pm 120 min easy bike
Tuesday : AM swim 60 min easy + 5 mile run
PM track workout 60 min
Wednesday : AM swim 60 min hard + 5 mile run
PM 90 min bike + 30 min brick
Thursday : AM run 90 min easy
Pm Bike 150 min threshold work
Friday: AM swim 60 min easy
PM : 120 min run easy
Saturday: AM swim 90 min
PM 240 min bike
Sunday : off with some plyo/stretching
Quite a few top armature's do this while working full time. You sacrifice things like TV time. Most likely have a job that lets you post in this forum
erte wrote:
Clearly that was a bad example, but the OP does have a point. There are lots of guys with a swim background, for instance, who only pick up running when they transition to triathlon relatively late in their athletic careers and still run fast marathons compensating for a lack of lifetime miles with sheer aerobic capacity. All that while being heavier than pure runners running similar times.
Like who? I see in the recent Ironman championships, only two guys ran the marathon leg under 2:50.
Lukas Verzbicas, trained as a triathlete, dominated high school like very very few ever have. I know one of the Brownlees ran 28 mid or 28 low for 10000 on the track, and this was well into his triathlete career.
Just two examples that come to mind. That sort of training might not make you a sub 2:10 or even sub 2:15 marathoner, but I think it can make you very good in a general sense. (if you think sub 4 mile or a 28:20 10000 are very good)
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