Supinator running in over pronation shoes

Dorsiclex99 wrote:

I was recently given the wrong shoes from a running store, I believe. I naturally land on the outside of my foot when running, but they said I need over pronation shoes. Are there any negatives that can come from this? I read that supinators should use neutral shoes, but in my last ones I got injured fairly often in them.

Yes. With support or stability shoes, there is a medial post that is designed to push a flat person's arch up, so that the runner does not over pronate. For a supinator, it could push the runner's foot more to the outside, thus making the supination more pronounce than what it is. It could definitely lead to ITB issues, as well as PF on the outer part of the foot, and outside calf pain.

I'm a slight supinator, and I wear neutral low profile running shoes. However, it's important to get neutral shoes that have a tad bit of structure to it, to help keep the foot ( heel of the foot) lock down. With a supinator, that heel could push over slightly while in motion.

Could you elaborate more on the importance of structure of a neutral shoe? I think you're talking about additional material by the ankle in the upper, but I'm not too sure. Can you name a shoe which exemplifies this?

And when you say the heel pushes over slightly, you mean the heel lands over the edge of the shoe?

Correct. Neutral shoes that have some structure to them, the material will be a little bit stiffer ( especially around the instep and sides of the shoe) to help keep the foot fixed in the shoe, so there is no play. There are some neutral shoes that are overly flexible, like most of the Nike RN Free shoes, where the foot is moving and bending all over the place. It could lead to blisters, sprains, and unstable ground contact. A shoe like that can be a nightmare for a supinator, as well as shoes with weak heel counters. A little bit of stiffness in the heel counter, as well as a little bit of stiffness in the middle part of the shoe will keep that foot locked down.

Shoes with some structure to them, but still have a lot of flexibility :

Zantes

Kinvara

Adios boost

Brooks Pure Flows

zoom streak 6, zoom elite 9, pegasus

Bostons

Adidas DPRs, etc

Shoes that are overly flexible with no structure and weak heel counters:

- The entire Nike Free Line up

- Saucony Freedom ISO - horrible shoe from a structure point. On landing, the foot just bends to the side. It felt insanely unstable. The problem is due to so much weight coming from the rubber sole. If a shoe is really heavy or carries a lot of weight to it, then the upper will need some structure to help keep the foot in place as the shoe slams down due to the weight of the sole. You have this heavy bottom with a very light upper. It does not match. Light shoes have light uppers, and heavy premium trainers have uppers that are more structured. That shoe is totally backwards.

For instance, take a racing flat or a track spike. You would think by the upper being so light and thin that the shoe would be unstable, but not so. Since the shoes are low to the ground, with very little cushioning, the foot is able to have more direct contact with the ground, and the natural pronation of the foot keeps the foot in place. So basically the more cushioning that is added to the shoe, and the higher the shoe is in stack, the more structure is required to keep that foot from moving all over the place. That is why premium trainers have the most structure. They have the most cushioning and the most stack height.

As far as the heel pushing over, if the heel counter is weak or thin, the heel will slide side to side on landing. Think about what would happen if you were to run with your shoes untied, the shoe would be loose, and your landing would be inconsistent because the looseness of the shoe will cause your foot to land a different way on each contact with the ground. That is what happens to the heel with a weak heel counter, and the runner might land more on the outer part of the heel or the inner part of the heel during a run. You will know if that is happening because you will feel dull to sharp pain in those areas while running.

Thank you for your reply. It was very educational and answered many questions I had in the back of my mind.

Do you work at a running shoe store? I'm just wondering how you accumulated all this knowledge about shoes.

No. I'm just a distance runner who has gained knowledge by wearing different running shoes and reading about running shoes. Most of the runners on this board are very knowledgeable when it comes to running shoes, because they are simply runners, and have tried on almost every shoe in the world.

The more shoes you run in and try on, the more knowledgeable you will become. There are some good running shoe stores out there, but at the end of the day, you have to know what works for you and what does not work. Some of those stores will try to put you anything based on the latest fade, or what they have been told...Running shoes are the most problematic thing about running.

Just like I informed you. Someone informed me, and you will probably go on to inform someone.

It's not about how u land it's about whether your foot rolls too far in (over pronate), neutral or out (supinate) during drive phase. People land on outside of foot and as they go through the drive phase they end up in a neutral, over-pronation, supination position. The shoe is not designed to change the way you land, it's designed to correct the foot when it's in full contact to the ground and the foot is applying the maximum amount of force to the ground.

Former Running Store Dude wrote:

It's not about how u land it's about whether your foot rolls too far in (over pronate), neutral or out (supinate) during drive phase. People land on outside of foot and as they go through the drive phase they end up in a neutral, over-pronation, supination position. The shoe is not designed to change the way you land, it's designed to correct the foot when it's in full contact to the ground and the foot is applying the maximum amount of force to the ground.

This.

Wear a lower-profile shoe. Look at Altra. If too flat, adjust with insoles.

Former Running Store Dude wrote:

It's not about how u land it's about whether your foot rolls too far in (over pronate), neutral or out (supinate) during drive phase. People land on outside of foot and as they go through the drive phase they end up in a neutral, over-pronation, supination position. The shoe is not designed to change the way you land, it's designed to correct the foot when it's in full contact to the ground and the foot is applying the maximum amount of force to the ground.

100% this. Almost everyone makes initial contact on the outside. It matters what happens during the other phases of the gait cycle. Don't second guess yourself if the shoe feels fine. As you said neutral shoes seem to be related to your injuries.

I have a lot less pain when walking, I have a Pronation, and these sneakers have made a significant difference in reducing that pain. and orthofeet shoes are comfortable! My feet may need a specialist, but I am happy with this purchase. I wear these to walk the dogs, exercise, or anytime nights and weekends. They look great and feel even better.

https://www.orthofeet.com/collections/flat-feet-shoes

In addition to that was said hete wouldnt hurt to look into a wider toe box shoe too. I supinate heavily and I noticed the effects are lessened with a wider toe box.

I vote the Nike Zoom Streak LT and 6 plus the speed rival. But others mentioned some good shoes too.

Altras were great but I found them too soft for me. Adidas and New Balance Zante were too narroe for my fat stupid wide feet.

I made this mistake once. Don't do it. It will get you injured.

Moo Goo wrote:

I made this mistake once. Don't do it. It will get you injured.

Me too.

IT Band and hip issues that took a while to recover from.

i don't have near the expertise that scorpion runner has in his explanation, but i agree with everything he's written. as an extreme supinator, i was once sponsored by asics in the 90s, before neutral/stability/etc. were common terms, so i ordered gel kayanos since they were the most expensive model. i felt like i was running on clouds until eventually my IT band/knee started aching. i stopped wearing them, and my knee almost immediately felt better (i thought it was tendinitis, but this proved that theory less likely since i was still training hard). i actually didn't want to believe that shoes so comfortable could be the problem, so i gave them a second try, but the knee started acting up again. i gave them to a teammate, and he never had any issues with them...

strangely, i have had this same exact thing happen one other time with the mizuno waveriders about 10 years ago, which are neutral. so i guess not all neutrals are alike.

stick with neutral shoes, but as others have outlined, you may need to experiment with different forms of neutral shoes,

cush

Old thread, but still relevant. I probably got some bad advice when I was a teenager, misinterpreted what over-pronation was, or maybe I actually was an over-pronator in high school, but I am a supinator that believed I needed stability shoes until about a year ago. I often would have pain on the outside of my foot, have some ankle pain, and roll my ankles more than I should. Since I have switched to less structured neutral shoes, my running feels much smoother with less of the type of pain I used to have (but have new, different pains now).

troll under a bridge wrote:

Old thread, but still relevant. I probably got some bad advice when I was a teenager, misinterpreted what over-pronation was, or maybe I actually was an over-pronator in high school, but I am a supinator that believed I needed stability shoes until about a year ago. I often would have pain on the outside of my foot, have some ankle pain, and roll my ankles more than I should. Since I have switched to less structured neutral shoes, my running feels much smoother with less of the type of pain I used to have (but have new, different pains now).

If you dont mind care to post what you run in to give the folks an idea?

I own the Speed Rival 6 not sure how this shoe falls under the radar. Tpu shank in forefoot, zoom pocket in the heel, and carbon rubber outsole and 7oz (my 10.5 is about 7.8oz) can be used for speed workouts all the way up to the marathon.

Ive had trouble with nike uppers but this is different and way more durable. I use it as my long run ane tempo shoe

Plus its only like $60 what a steal!!