What time would Rupp have to run in Chicago for you to consider him the greatest American marathoner of all time?/

Cuckoo-land wrote:

There you go a bit of refresh on the issue... see ya

Anything in the 2:07 - 2:08 range. He’s proved to be good at non rabbit marathons. Sorry for the KK fans, but he was no Olympian.

Unpopular Truth wrote:

The truth is that KK is the greatest American marathoner by virtue of times, wins (including over some all-time greats), and world + still-standing American records. No olympics? Who cares, the Olympic marathon is weaker than any major. Rupp needs to surpass KK's times and get several more wins to be the greatest.

I have disagree since you seem to forget the last Olympic marathon was won by the best marathoner ever, race in which Galen won bronze. More respect please.

3hr-marathoner wrote:

As has been said already, to be the greatest American marathoner, he'd need to win in Chicago then win a few more. As if now I don't think you could rank him above Salazar never mind Shorter

What people dont realize is that the competition has become more intensified over the years. There was no one running 2:03 in Frank Shorters day. No kipchoge. No wanjiru. No bekele. Or at least, they could not afford to go to Boston or New York. Im of the belief that there may have certainly been a handful of people from Kenya and Ethiopia who could have beat Shorter and Salazar in the 70s and 80s but did not simply because they didnt have the means to get there.

Now everyone bashes rupp and says he doesnt measure up when in reality his ability is right in line with Shorter and Salazar.

He is by far the best american born distance runner of all time. Notice I said distance runner and not just marathoner. His overall track record + marathon results have already put him ahead of the other americans mentioned.

Sub 2 obviously.

If he breaks the AR he is the GOAT. If he goes faster than 2:04:50 he would remove all doubt.

Rupp will break his femur and a have a heart attack to be forgotten in a few days... A huge zero and a caterered to, effeminate spoiled brat... yuck.

Bullet_Proof wrote:

...

Now everyone bashes rupp and says he doesnt measure up when in reality his ability is right in line with Shorter and Salazar.

He is by far the best american born distance runner of all time. Notice I said distance runner and not just marathoner. His overall track record + marathon results have already put him ahead of the other americans mentioned.

For pete's sake, neither Shorter nor Salazar are American born!

Yeah but you can also only race who is there. Guys like Al Sal, Shorter, and Rodgers were argueably the best marathoners in the world for a couple of years (top 5 is pretty undebatable). It is sort of a stretch to put Rupp in the world top 5 unless he drops some 2:04 type time.

It is both easy to overweight times (2:052nd) and comparison to peers (ARs). And how much do you favor multiple wins (i.e. Bill Rodgers) versus high peaks (Say Salazer with a WR:)) How you balance them is sort of personal.

Meb and Shorter are pretty closed. Do you favor Meb cause the fields were deeper or do you take Shorter because he won the big one and set the AR. I take shorter but the otherside is defendable. Or do you just focus on times so that KK + Hall are 1+2 on your list.

Unless Rupp does something crazy (i.e. he wins in say 2:03) I find it hard to imagine him passing either of them tomorrow. Win tomorrow in a decent time (say 2:06) and then has another couple great runs (say top 3s, sub 2:07) we can start talking about Rupp being the GOAT.

Focus on the question. Forget about you think he can do. Of course there is theoretically a time that would make him the GOAT. Just imagine he runs:

2:04. Some people this would be enough for US goat.

2:02 or below - hard to argue he's not US goat.

2:00 - most would consider him World goat.

1:58 - no doubt World goat.

He would never need to run another for these designations.

Of course it's subjective. He could run 1:30 and some LR's would argue against.

I'm not bashing Rupp, wasn't in that post anyway. No doubt the marathon is deeper now than in the seventees but it's not much different than in Meb's time and he still has more top finishes than Rupp. So Rupp has to win a major or two to be better than Meb. Also, I take issue with the idea that the old school guys couldn't hang in the modern era marathon. I think think someone like Shorter who ran well in heat and in tactical races could have had a career very much like the Meb's if he were somehow dropped 30-years in the future.

` wrote:

Factoring in his bronze and, I suppose, his Trials victory, is there a time that would make you consider him the best American marathoner ever? How fast to be better than Shorter and Meb? Would sub-2:06:30 put him ahead of non-Olympian Khannouchi and non-medalist Hall?

Sub 2:04 with a win. That would be fast enough, combined with a win for me to put him there. His bronze in the olympics is a nice boon; but other guys have notable victories that Rupp does not. and guys like KK have run 2:05 and Hall 2:06.

In my mind to be best American marathoner Rupp would need something like this: Sub 2:04, Sub 2:05 and at least one WMM win, or 2:05-2:06 but with 2-3 WMM victories. Any of those and I think I'd put him as greatest American marathoner.

2:03 or GTFO.

A win in New York or Boston is also must...

Chicago is faster but substantually lesser in every other meaningful way.

racistornot wrote:

For pete's sake, neither Shorter nor Salazar are American born!

Of course. But the true meaning of American born is not African born.

Donyiyo wrote:

Unpopular Truth wrote:

The truth is that KK is the greatest American marathoner by virtue of times, wins (including over some all-time greats), and world + still-standing American records. No olympics? Who cares, the Olympic marathon is weaker than any major. Rupp needs to surpass KK's times and get several more wins to be the greatest.

I have disagree since you seem to forget the last Olympic marathon was won by the best marathoner ever, race in which Galen won bronze. More respect please.

Well, in that case, Meb is the GOAT

Silver Olympic medal in the Marathon

Won New York

And won Boston

And he ran 2:08

So olympic medal, 2 major marathon wins, and 2:08.

see how that works?

lol..lol

I would say two major wins in the US and the AR so a 2:05.

If he could throw another Olympic medal in there, I'd replace that with a major, and if he somehow got gold, the discussion would end there, no matter how weak the field is.

A top 3 finish at London or Berlin would certainly look good

big pig man wrote:

No time will make me think that. Still needs a win at the big show.

Still needs a win, period.

You really Rupp hasn't won one major international race in his career, right?

Maybe he can do the GOAT's laundry.

Rupp for the win wrote:

2:04 (and a dominating win) would be enough for me to "consider him the greatest American marathoner of all time".

However, in a fair world he might have been banned for life:

- testo meds as teenager (see Magness)

- prohibited method before the 2012 Olympics (see USADA)

- elevated testo before the 2016 Olympics (see USADA)

- ABP violation in 2017 (see IAAF)

While one might suspect Shorter and Salazar and Khannouchi, none of those has this sad history. So yeah, his performances are very questionable.

When did Rupp have elevated T??

You can read about it in the leaked 269 page report, or in German in Der Spiegel, or in English here:

https://www.evolutionary.org/nike-hindered-alberto-salazar-doping-investigation/

"German magazine Der Spiegel reported that Galen Rupp and Matthew Centrowitz, Nike Oregon Project athletes, provided samples that arose suspicion in the doping investigators ahead of the Rio de Janeiro 2016 Olympics. The Der Spiegel report further disclosed that it was reported by an employee of the United States Anti-Doping Agency that the T/E level of Rupp is elevated compared to athlete’s previous pattern in samples. "