What time would Rupp have to run in Chicago for you to consider him the greatest American marathoner of all time?/

Ftcftvvfttff wrote:

2:05:42 wrote:

Ahem, other American runners have won more than one major marathon, and the American record is 2:05:42.

I think that sub 2:06 would do it...

BTW: why does T&F News list the American record as 2:05:38 and not 2:05:42?

You and T&F are correct. The AR is 2:05:38 and was set by KK at London in 2002. The 2:05:42 is the WR KK set at Chicago in 1999. KK became a citizen in May of 2000. KK ran three 2:05s, two as an American.

compressed wrote:

I agree completely. He would need to go under 2:03 to even be in the goat conversation. Barring that, there's nothing he can do in Chicago to become the goat, or even to surpass any one of Rodgers, Salazar, Shorter, KK, and Meb.

THIS. Start with a 2:30, then win New York. If he never does or at least comes very damn close, NO GOAT.

'sup pus! wrote:

compressed wrote:

I agree completely. He would need to go under 2:03 to even be in the goat conversation. Barring that, there's nothing he can do in Chicago to become the goat, or even to surpass any one of Rodgers, Salazar, Shorter, KK, and Meb.

THIS. Start with a 2:30, then win New York. If he never does or at least comes very damn close, NO GOAT.

typo: 2:03 is the correct answer.

'sup pus! wrote:

'sup pus! wrote:

THIS. Start with a 2:30, then win New York. If he never does or at least comes very damn close, NO GOAT.

typo: 2:03 is the correct answer.

Rupp needs to win an international race against the top dogs. The world is a much bigger place for quality marathons. He needs to win several top marathons, some OUTSIDE the USA, and at least approach the WR.

2:04 (and a dominating win) would be enough for me to "consider him the greatest American marathoner of all time".

However, in a fair world he might have been banned for life:

- testo meds as teenager (see Magness)

- prohibited method before the 2012 Olympics (see USADA)

- elevated testo before the 2016 Olympics (see USADA)

- ABP violation in 2017 (see IAAF)

While one might suspect Shorter and Salazar and Khannouchi, none of those has this sad history. So yeah, his performances are very questionable.

1:59:59

he has an olympic medal. So he needs a win at either NYC, Boston or Chicago, and he needs a 2:05 pr. So he can take care of that tomorrow by winning Chicago in 2:05.

Unpopular Truth wrote:

The truth is that KK is the greatest American marathoner by virtue of times, wins (including over some all-time greats), and world + still-standing American records. No olympics? Who cares, the Olympic marathon is weaker than any major. Rupp needs to surpass KK's times and get several more wins to be the greatest.

DING-DING-DING! We have a winnah!

Hayduke wrote:

he has an olympic medal. So he needs a win at either NYC, Boston or Chicago, and he needs a 2:05 pr. So he can take care of that tomorrow by winning Chicago in 2:05.

Agree with above. He is already half way to being USA's best marathoner of all time.

Rupp is not a 2:05 guy wrote:

Cuckoo-land wrote:

Oh I dont think so....

Then Rupp is NOT a 2:05:42 guy? Soften the required time because Rupp is soft. Okay.

The "i dont think so" was referred to Khannouchi's as being the guy to beat. More like Ryan Hall...

Nobody has mentioned Clarence DeMar 7 Boston Marathon wins his first in 1911 and his final Boston win in 1930 so 19 years apart, so if Rupp wins Boston in 2018 he would have to win in 2037, DeMar also has a 1924 Olympic Bronze Medal in 1924, I think Rupp will be a great Marathoner and will winsome Marathons (5-7 would be my guess as to how many Marathons Rupp will win in his career) I hope he runs at least 2:04.57 or faster so I don't have to explain that 2:05.38 is the American Record, even though American Ryan Hall ran 2:04.58.

Who is the best will always be debated, Shorter had Olympic Gold in 72 and Silver in 1976, and 4 wins at Fukuoka, Rodgers 4 wins at Boston and New York and Fukuoka and a lot of other wins, Salazar was superb, but a short career Khanouchi and Buddy Edelin brought the World Record to the USA, Meb ended long droughts for Americans with wins at Boston and New York and the Olympic Silver.

Rupp will be different, he will likely be much faster than any American, It will be exciting, he has not run fast yet, but you know he will eventually.

Cuckoo-land wrote:

Rupp is not a 2:05 guy wrote:

Then Rupp is NOT a 2:05:42 guy? Soften the required time because Rupp is soft. Okay.

The "i dont think so" was referred to Khannouchi's as being the guy to beat. More like Ryan Hall...

Then Rupp IS NOT a 2:05 guy. He will NEVER be a 2:05 guy. He will NEVER hold the AR. That is YOUR claim, so you must soften up the AR so Rupp can "win" it. Sure thing.

douglas burke wrote:

... I hope he runs at least 2:04.57 or faster so I don't have to explain that 2:05.38 is the American Record, even though American Ryan Hall ran 2:04.58.

Even if Hall's 2:04:58 was not wind aided it will always be a 2:04.58a because Boston is considered an aided course. But for a 2:04:57 or better on an unaided course would take care of that.

No WR, no Olympic gold - no GOAT.

With a new AR he'll become the fastest American, but GOAT is decided not by times but by competitive record against peers. It's harder today as the pool is so much deeper, but that's just his bad luck.

cbd wrote:

No WR, no Olympic gold - no GOAT.

With a new AR he'll become the fastest American, but GOAT is decided not by times but by competitive record against peers. It's harder today as the pool is so much deeper, but that's just his bad luck.

The talent pool is MUCH DEEPER is true (due almost entirely to Kenya and Ethiopia) , but back then all the top runners went to Boston, New York and Fukuoka, now there is London, Chicago, Dubai, Tokyo, Paris, Rotterdam, Frankfurt, Amsterdam etc. All the Talent goes to many different races, instead of the everyone going to the big 3 (And the Olympics every 4 years, there were no World Championships before 1983 and when the World champs started it was every 4 years, now it is every 2, Imagine if everyone went to the same 2-3 races? Now finishing in 55th place in 2:08 20 is. lol

Rupp is not a 2:05 guy wrote:

Cuckoo-land wrote:

The "i dont think so" was referred to Khannouchi's as being the guy to beat. More like Ryan Hall...

Then Rupp IS NOT a 2:05 guy. He will NEVER be a 2:05 guy. He will NEVER hold the AR. That is YOUR claim, so you must soften up the AR so Rupp can "win" it. Sure thing.

Yawn...... i was only pointing out that IF he is to be judged the fastest guy in US history he needs to beat Hall's time not Khannouchi's. Note the "IF"...

Maybe you have reading comprehension issues...

For me, I'd think I need a sub 2:03:45 win in Chicago tomorrow.

That would be a course record, american record, and top 10 marathoner of all time.

Cuckoo-land wrote:

Rupp is not a 2:05 guy wrote:

Then Rupp IS NOT a 2:05 guy. He will NEVER be a 2:05 guy. He will NEVER hold the AR. That is YOUR claim, so you must soften up the AR so Rupp can "win" it. Sure thing.

Yawn...... i was only pointing out that IF he is to be judged the fastest guy in US history he needs to beat Hall's time not Khannouchi's. Note the "IF"...

Maybe you have reading comprehension issues...

The AR is 2:05:38. The reading comprehension issues are yours.

The AR is 2:05:38 wrote:

Cuckoo-land wrote:

Yawn...... i was only pointing out that IF he is to be judged the fastest guy in US history he needs to beat Hall's time not Khannouchi's. Note the "IF"...

Maybe you have reading comprehension issues...

The AR is 2:05:38. The reading comprehension issues are yours.

From a guy who has no business holding it... smile.... there you go you look better already...