what does "alcoholism" really look like?

Basically, anybody who cannot go a day without drinking is probably an alcoholic.

The CDC's effort to define alcoholism behaviorally was a thankless task. I actually think they got fairly close--and I don't think anyone could come up with a single one-size-fits-all definition.

To the extent that I've noticed my friends' and co-workers' drinking habits, it seems that very few of them match the CDC's definition. My wife, on the other hand, hits that men's definition easily. Two drinks a day, seven days a week? She cannot go a day without drinking, and she drinks that much or (generally) more pretty much every day.

And yes, she has a problem.

There's no one size fits all. I could go months without drinking a drop then inexplicably go on a non-stop binge for a few days , then stop, so had to quit..

How douchey of you. Drinking becomes problematic when it spirals and inhibits normal functioning. I think of drinking habits harming one's ability in the career space or to drive without getting DUI, or their drinking substantially damaging interpersonal relationships. Usually the interpersonal component includes someone consistently drinking enough that they are unable to relate/interact in normal functional manner.Your wife drinking a couple glasses of wine each night, you calling her an alcoholic because of only that? Is she working? Does she drive drunk or operate machinery while impaired? Is she able to maintain relationships with non-judgmental normal people in her life? If so, and if she is able to function well in society, she is in no way an alcoholic in my book.But then again, I've always hated teetotaler moralists. Are you a teetotaler?

djd wrote:

Basically, anybody who cannot go a day without drinking is probably an alcoholic.

The CDC's effort to define alcoholism behaviorally was a thankless task. I actually think they got fairly close--and I don't think anyone could come up with a single one-size-fits-all definition.

To the extent that I've noticed my friends' and co-workers' drinking habits, it seems that very few of them match the CDC's definition. My wife, on the other hand, hits that men's definition easily. Two drinks a day, seven days a week? She cannot go a day without drinking, and she drinks that much or (generally) more pretty much every day.

And yes, she has a problem.

Bakk atcha wrote:

How douchey of you. Drinking becomes problematic when it spirals and inhibits normal functioning. I think of drinking habits harming one's ability in the career space or to drive without getting DUI, or their drinking substantially damaging interpersonal relationships. Usually the interpersonal component includes someone consistently drinking enough that they are unable to relate/interact in normal functional manner.

Your wife drinking a couple glasses of wine each night, you calling her an alcoholic because of only that? Is she working? Does she drive drunk or operate machinery while impaired? Is she able to maintain relationships with non-judgmental normal people in her life? If so, and if she is able to function well in society, she is in no way an alcoholic in my book.

But then again, I've always hated teetotaler moralists. Are you a teetotaler?

There is nothing "douchey" about his post. Calm down dude.

Who are you? The arbiter of LRC? How about you phukk the phukk off, teetotaler. Posters can speak for themselves phukk stick limploper.

I drink on average about zero drinks per week, though this sometimes goes up to as high as 4 if I'm being very social. Rarely is it ever higher than that. I never have more than 3 drinks in a single sitting. Most functional educated adults I know are about the same.

What does alcoholism look like? It varies a lot. My brother is an alcoholic and an addict. If he had money for it, he would be drunk essentially 24/7, and there have been many times when he would drink himself to the point of ending up in the ER or equivalent only to wake up 12 hours later and immediately start drinking again. Even when he is "functional" (as in he can hold down a job in construction), he still drinks about a six pack every evening. I do not expect him to see 40 and am honestly surprised he's still alive at 33.

Then there's my sister. She is an alcoholic but doesn't realize it. She is poor and so she doesn't have the money to booze it up as much as she would like, but if she did, she'd probably put down 6+ drinks every single night. As it is, even being poor she still goes out probably 3-4 times per week and has 3+ drinks every time. She cannot ever let alcohol go to waste, so even if there is just a little bit of beer left in a glass that has been siting awhile, she will down it. She also does not seem to have any concept of cutting oneself off. She just keeps drinking until she either falls asleep or doesn't feel like drinking any more. She thinks it's bizarre to not want to go out a bare minimum of twice per week. If you met her you would not guess any of this though. She has no problem going alcohol free during the day or even going days without drinking at all.

My grandfather would go long periods of time without consuming a single drop of alcohol, but then when he did, he'd consume nothing but alcohol for days, sometimes up to two weeks at a time. He died from it.

Regardless of what anyone tells you, alcohol is poison and is absolutely not good for you. How bad it is for you will vary depending largely on how your specific body metabolizes acetaldehyde, but it doesn't change the fact alcohol is bad for you. Everyone can make up their own decision as to how much they want to consume, but less is going to be better, and personally, I would not want to have a close relationship with anyone who drank more than ~5 drinks per week.

To each their own, but you just said you would not want to have a close relationship with anyone who has a single glass of wine with dinner each day. For reference, having dessert that often is likely worse for you.

One (beer) is too much and six / twelve not enough. Quantity / frequency is one aspect, but willpower to avoid / can't avoid it is the most telling. "social drinking" and "the happy drunk" excuse are just fooling yourself.

If you want to see a horror trifecta try The Lost Weekend and Those Days Of Wine And Roses and Flight.

I guess you've never heard of a high functioning alcoholic. You don't need to be someone who misses work all the time and goes to the ER to be an alcoholic. I agree that the CDCs definition is a little loose though. I don't think your wife at 2 drinks a night is an alcoholic though. For a woman, I'd say it's closer to 20+ a week, maybe 30+ a week for a man.

With your family history I get why you are set against alcohol. But, for a lot of people alcohol is no big deal. I had to look at the calendar to see when the last had a drink - it was over a month ago. I’ve just been very busy at work and haven’t had the time to go out and socialize. My life’s been work, run, time with my wife, sleep. However, I like drinking. I like drinking a little. I like drinking a lot. I like the taste of a lot of different alcoholic drinks; wine, beer, whisky, mixed drinks. But, I also don’t care if I don’t drink. If I’m the designated driver I still have a fun night. Going a month or so without drinking is no big deal. On the other hand it is rare I would ever drink two nights in a row, other than on vacations.

Thay being said, I will have nights with friends where everyone drinks way more than 5 drinks each. It’s good fun. They are all good people with good jobs and good families. Sorry about your family, but you need to learn to take a step back from it. Alcohol is not for everyone, but for other people it’s meaningless.

What's your point? His post, and this thread have absolutely nothing to do with you.

Reductio ad absurdum applied -

Do you like alcohol? Or perhaps do you have a fixation on liquid, hydration and glass without consciously knowing it?

Pour some water into a nice looking glass. Better if from some type of decanter. Make sure it is about 36-40 degrees Farenheit. Drink from it. How does it make you feel?

My point is, that while alcohol has addictive properties and appears in the form of dependency, our addictions may in fact be on cold hydration in semi-illuminating, translucent glass.

east coast wrote:

CDC guidelines err on the side of caution and have a pretty conservative (in absolute terms) definition of "problem drinking" at 14 drinks/week for men - or 4 drinks in any one sitting.

I'd take these finding with a grain of salt. Most people I know are knocking back at least that many drinks per week. A couple friends polish off a bottle of wine per night. but most stories I read about true alcoholics tend to describe drinking way beyond that scale - 2 pints of vodka per day, a case of beer per day, 3 bottles of wine per day, etc.

I skeptical. I drink, on average, between 5-10 drinks per week. Partially because of the guidelines. But Who knows.

All of the people you describe, including you, are dependent on alcohol in a medical sense. You are all physiologically addicted. One drink a day is well above normal consumption and is physiologically addicting.

Nonetheless, it's not what is socially regarded as alcoholism. A bottle or two a day is. I have a close family member who is a bottle or two a day alcoholic. It's debilitating. Nonetheless is a professional earning a good salary and meeting professional obligations (the boss is an alcoholic too, and that helps).

If you're reaching for something everyday, there's an addictive component no matter how "successful" one maybe. My grandfather, hard working, honest family man, was easily a functioning alcoholic and a 2 pack a day smoker. I really question the rationale of somebody defending, "highly successful" people's addictions based on their social status. It is what it is. We're all inherently addicted to something, just be honest about it. Alcohol is a powerful drug that we've been conditioned to accept and embrace. While some can moderate their intake well, some can't and just because you make a lot of money or hang out at fancy restaurants doesn't take away the physiological toll alcohol does to the body over time. I love a good beer with a meal a few times a month but it's something I decided, inherently I was more efficient without on most occasions.

this is the only person in this thread who seems to get it.

Bakk atcha wrote:

How douchey of you. Drinking becomes problematic when it spirals and inhibits normal functioning. I think of drinking habits harming one's ability in the career space or to drive without getting DUI, or their drinking substantially damaging interpersonal relationships. Usually the interpersonal component includes someone consistently drinking enough that they are unable to relate/interact in normal functional manner.

Your wife drinking a couple glasses of wine each night, you calling her an alcoholic because of only that? Is she working? Does she drive drunk or operate machinery while impaired? Is she able to maintain relationships with non-judgmental normal people in her life? If so, and if she is able to function well in society, she is in no way an alcoholic in my book.

But then again, I've always hated teetotaler moralists. Are you a teetotaler?

Your sister is not an alcoholic.

For what it's worth, I've been sober for thirty years and around alcoholics for every one of them. The best definition of I've heard of alcoholism (and this really rankles some people) is that if you've got to control it, your drinking is out of control. The idea being that if you're a casual drinker, you don't have to count drinks or set limits.