Thr Hard Road Of Kenyan B-Level Runners

rekrunner wrote:

I didn't leave with a good impression of Volker Wagner.

Maybe he's not doing anything wrong, and probably has enabled opportunities for some Kenyan runners, but just the same, he is clearly interested in short term return on investment, for as long as he can exploit the athletes, rather than long term investment of the development and welfare of athletes. It looks like he still netted more from Eunice, then Eunice did.

I couldn't tell but it honestly looked like he charged them for that huge tray of disgusting cake and pastries. It costs him next to nothing to lodge the athletes in that bungalo so wouldn't it be a better good faith gesture to inform them that travel costs (and away meals) would be incurred but while they're at his home they would be treated as guests? Wouldn't an athlete who is more at ease with their living arrangement who is being treated like a mutually benefitting business partner more likely than not train and race better? That to me was the tipping point from semi-benevolent, "oh it's just German directness" to outright short-sighted exploitation.

He explicitly didn't charge for food "...because she didn't win anything", which suggest she would have been charged if she made more. In any case the pastries did look awful.

Gotcha. I was at least as confused by that expense breakdown as she was. Just a grimy dude all around.

Volker is a creep. Low level. Limited to low level races in Germany and Austria. I found him to be a d-bag.

rekrunner wrote:

I didn't leave with a good impression of Volker Wagner.

Maybe he's not doing anything wrong, and probably has enabled opportunities for some Kenyan runners, but just the same, he is clearly interested in short term return on investment, for as long as he can exploit the athletes, rather than long term investment of the development and welfare of athletes. It looks like he still netted more from Eunice, then Eunice did.

Volker would have made peanuts, certainly compared to the hassle of actually managing these marginal elites. They are loss-leaders.He is understandably only interested (and makes pretty much all his profit) if someone hits the big time - and clearly once they do they fly to someone more charismatic (which Volker certainly is not). Hermans/Canova/Salazar etc. would not give most of these runners the time of day.

El Keniano wrote:

I hear you but the two high profile PED busts, Rita and Jemima, were already rich. Sometimes it's just plain old greed.

What this means is if you have the "dough" you're in the "show." 😉

Jet Fuel Joe wrote:

El Keniano wrote:

I hear you but the two high profile PED busts, Rita and Jemima, were already rich. Sometimes it's just plain old greed.

What this means is if you have the "dough" you're in the "show." 😉

In reality, they were probably cheating to become rich as well as cheating once they were rich.

Not many suddenly decide to cheat, for most it's just simply in their personality.

toeheed wrote:

rekrunner wrote:

I didn't leave with a good impression of Volker Wagner.

Maybe he's not doing anything wrong, and probably has enabled opportunities for some Kenyan runners, but just the same, he is clearly interested in short term return on investment, for as long as he can exploit the athletes, rather than long term investment of the development and welfare of athletes. It looks like he still netted more from Eunice, then Eunice did.

Volker would have made peanuts, certainly compared to the hassle of actually managing these marginal elites. They are loss-leaders.He is understandably only interested (and makes pretty much all his profit) if someone hits the big time - and clearly once they do they fly to someone more charismatic (which Volker certainly is not). Hermans/Canova/Salazar etc. would not give most of these runners the time of day.

The video was good and interesting but is also a strong case for making the sport completely amateur again so people like Volker (or other agents such as Hermans etc) are somewhat forced to try and make a more honest living (maybe they are not capeable of doing so but at least they would not be exploiting distance runners). In terms of the athletes' well being, they should be awarded in more indirect but more beneficial (in the long term) ways - examples could be opportunities in education (the US scholarship system is good in this regard) or careers (the Japanese corporate system is sort of an example) which would enable them to build a solid base to get out of poverty rather than having someone constantly exploit them regardless of how good they end up being.

OK, maybe Volker is not the warm & fuzzy type, but it was pretty clear to me that:

a) He did not charge Eunice for food, so she would have at least some money to take home.

b) He got the runners to Europe and entered in some appropriate races where they had a legitimate shot of prize money.

c) They were treated decently and had good living conditions.

d) Volker was not making much money himself.

OK, make running 100% amateur again because you don’t want types like Volker involved… But guess what? Lots of runners like Eunice who get a shot through guys like Volker will now have no shot. When one suggests the runners are being “exploited”, I think they are not considering that a lot of these runners would simply have no chance. Kenya is so talent heavy that the pool of supported athletes under an amateur system would have no room to pay the way for a lot of the B-level runners that today at least get a chance.

Yes, it would have been better for Eunice to return to Kenya, have a long training cycle then come back to Europe later in the year. However, who was going to pay to bring her back? Volker knew he wasn’t, and her chances to find another contract were slim. So I can see why he pushed for her to do that second race. It was likely her last shot in Europe as back home there are always a ton more prospects coming up. He picked the right race. She was second, and may have challenged for the win if she had not gone off course.

- I'm with you ... this is a "Hoop Dreams"-like film where they attempt to portray Volker like "Coach Ping"and the Eunice/Felix as William Gates/Arthur Agee.

- The "cold-hard" reality is that Volker, I agree a little weird ... how could a German marry a Russian after WWII?, got them out of Eldoret which is in the middle of nowhere and got them "a shot" in a First World environment. Similar to William Gates & Arthur Agee, no way that either Eunice or Felix would have had a chance to attend a high school like such as Saint Joseph High School w/follow-on college scholarships without Coach Ping getting bringing them into a positive situation. No doubt, Volker wasn't pro bono but he definitely wasn't making any money on this deal. If anything, he's probably guilty of wanting to be "in the mix" on the running scene & a similar high when he walks into Eldoret w/contracts in-hand.

- If Volker gets this type of welcome, just think what Eldoret does when UTEP's Coach Ereng & WCAP come to town waving scholarships & citizenship.

That was hard to watch on so many levels.

butt... wrote:

DANG. That's some real stuff right there.

Yeah. Really puts US running in perspective.

Too bad Philip Seymour Hoffman is dead. He could play Volker:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1972571/videoplayer/vi1725279257?ref_=tt_ov_vi

Remember Felix made it and promptly dumped Volker. For a rural Kenyan guy disregard loyalty like that is very telling. Again, they all seemed very depressed and homesick in Germany. Eunice and Felix were determined to return home but Volker put his foot down and wouldn't let them.

At the end, lost in translation when Eunice and her male athlete friend were explaining the differences of life in Germany and Kenya, the impression they were giving in Swahili to her family is that life there is horrible and only good for visiting to make some money in a race and gawk at dogs in designer jackets so that you can have stories to entertain the villagers. So you lot can now understand why you will never see a Kenyan crossing the med to emigrate to Europe.

The sliminess of Volker mirrors that of Canova. Kenyan runners are a talented but somewhat naive lot, perfect fodder for manager-predators.

That really was a good documentary. It also leaves me with so many questions. How does he get visas for his runners? How can he make living? presumably it's a hobby as 15 percent of some small appearance fees and prize fees doesn't add up to much, especially as he said he was flying all around to different countries to find talent. it must be a hobby for him.

Is he coaching his runners? Were they running for a club or in high school? the film says they are subsistence farmers-its amazing they have the energy to run and farm. Even though the lady only made about 200 bucks, that's kind of like farming in rural kenya- a small farmer there growing maize would be lucky to make that profit on a coulple acres of maize plus some food. if weather or pests were bad, a farmer could make nothing. the fact that felix made 30,000 euros in one season is a unthinkable sum of money in that context- presumably he would be expected to take care of a large number of extended family though.

finally, the german mentioned going to Zimbabwe to find talent-it would be interesting if they start producing world class distance runners. they have guys they do well in the Comrades and other regional races. similar weather to highlands of kenya as country is mostly on a rolling plateau around 5000 feet with mountains up to 9000 feet. perfect year round running weather.

one hundred eighty seven for that much work? $187!!!!

it's obviously sucks, but for a subsistence farmer who works there ass off with no guarantee of good rain good market price etc., that's par for the course. A farmer could get a loan to buy seeds and fertilizer, prepare a field by hand, weed it several times, doing everything right, then a drought or army worms come, and the farmer gets no money, no food and still has to sell off an animal to pay off the loan. point is, a subsistence farmer there lives a completely different existence than a suburban youth in america or europe.

You have to feel sorry for them. I get constantly contacted by Kenyans looking for the chance to race abroad. They don't realise how poor the prize money is in most races