12 weeks to go in a Sub 2:20 Marathon Plan, how would you write it?

Forcerunner wrote:

I'll be running CIM on 12/3 and was hoping to see how other people would schedule a specific marathon block for someone shooting under 2:20. I've got an idea of how my training has worked for me up till now and how I'll have things set up, but I was curious to see if anyone would seriously have a discussion over this.

For reference:

Last 12 weeks have averaged 120mpw.

3 highest weeks 131, 140, 150.

Lowest 3 weeks 88, 104, 105.

Run around 7:15-7:30 pace for easy runs.

Races run in last 12 weeks: 5mi in 24:12, 5k in 14:27, 20k in 1:03:35.

Typical schedule during the week is:

Monday - Easy Double

Tuesday - Workout

Wednesday - Long Run

Thursday - Easy Double

Friday - Workout

Saturday - Easy Double

Sunday - LR + Workout

If YOU had to draw something up, what would you do?

What is your 10k PB?

I think he makes a fair point. Here is a sampling of the workouts I have drawn up for someone who is shooting for an OTQ at CIM, starting with next week, and ending 6 weeks out. The long tempo stuff is key. You will see that there is very little shorter stuff, and most of that is in there because the guy wants to focus on fast 5ks and 10ks in the spring, so I want to keep him in touch with 5k pace some for future cycles.3 mi up; 4 x 1 mile cruise intervals w/1:00 rest; 5:00 rest; 3 x 1 mile cruise intervals; 3 mi down10k Race8 x 1000m at 2:55 with 2:30 active rest13 miles at marathon pace; 17 miles total2 mi up; 3 mi tempo; 3:00 rest; 3 mi tempo; 3:00 rest; 2 mi tempo; 2 mi cool down2 mi up; 4 x 1 mile at tempo pace w/1:00 rest; 10 miles easy; 4 x mile at tempo pace w/1:00 rest; 2 miles down2 mi up; 8 x 1 mile cruise intervals w/1:00 rest; 2 downHalf Marathon (run at MP, should be an easy win)2 mi up; 4 x 2 mile at tempo pace with 2:00 rest; 2 mi down8 x 800m at 2:20 with 400 jog rest20 mile long run

Stanton K wrote:

It seems like there is a lot of mileage and shorter, borderline anaerobic work, but not really anything in between. Outside of the 15 at MP, your longest rep is 6 minutes. I would add a lot more grinding tempos if I were you. You don't need to run 4:15 for any of the miles in your marathon. Also, you've got a big taper prior to Columbus half (which I assume you are racing hard). Racing it is fine 8 weeks out, but you've lost a lot of opportunities for training stimulus with the taper and then recovery.

I would supplant some of the shorter speed work with more grinding tempos with harder finishes. Something like 8 miles at 5:20, 2 miles at 4:55. Or 12 miles with the first 6 at 5:30, last 6 at 5:15.

Drop out the 800s and 1000s at 5k pace, and this is very close to the same plan that I used for my 3 marathons, which ranged from 2:30 to 2:35 at ages 42 through 45.

wisenheimer - With my work schedule I stick to AM workouts, and I run very easy with lower volume on the "easy" days. I've found that doubling splits up the mileage better and keeps me more fresh with less overall fatigue instead of a day off or super short run.

Stanton - This is true. I just did 3x3mi in 5:20, 5:20, 5:10 pace for the sets last week. I have a 20mi at 5:30-5:50 pace coming up soon as well, then the longer MP run. I am racing Columbus as a goal race, and fitness check with a few weeks to go. After that I'll do a week of recovery then the last few weeks of specific prep. In my "base" sort of prep over the past couple of months I have worked on the fast finishes like you suggested which I think is a great concept.

Marlow - I ran 30:10 for 10k in June.

Smoove - Thanks for the resources!

Smoove wrote:

Drop out the 800s and 1000s at 5k pace, and this is very close to the same plan that I used for my 3 marathons, which ranged from 2:30 to 2:35 at ages 42 through 45.

Sorry, why are there two Smoove's?

The hay's in the barn at 12 weeks out, bro. I'd just go for an easy 3 mile jog every morning with a moderate pace 5 miler on Sundays from here until race day. Those in a couple of 100 meter strides in the last mile every other day as well, just to keep the nervous system topped off. Main thing now is to work on your race strategy, practice takin Gu on your 5 milers just to make sure your stomach can handle it, and do at least 2 of your runs in the shoes you plan to wear on the big race day.

That's pretty much what I did from 12 out when I ran 2:18 back in the day. Also at CIM, coincidently.

Run a lot of workouts at slower-than-marathon-pace. From 8 weeks out, you don't need to do anything faster than HM pace or slower than MP + 15 seconds or so. So, in the 4 weeks, build that base of 5:40ish runs. Throw in moderate days instead of the short fartleks, where you're running 45'-60' instead of 1' intervals. It is not more stressing, and will support work you do in the final 8 weeks.

Gerald0 wrote:

The hay's in the barn at 12 weeks out, bro. I'd just go for an easy 3 mile jog every morning with a moderate pace 5 miler on Sundays from here until race day. Those in a couple of 100 meter strides in the last mile every other day as well, just to keep the nervous system topped off. Main thing now is to work on your race strategy, practice takin Gu on your 5 milers just to make sure your stomach can handle it, and do at least 2 of your runs in the shoes you plan to wear on the big race day.

That's pretty much what I did from 12 out when I ran 2:18 back in the day. Also at CIM, coincidently.

wew

"keep the nervous system topped off"

Looks like you were going for elite meme status but bonked hard after that first sentence.

Not following you. Both were me. One post was about what someone that I coach is doing, the other is about what I personally have done.

I agree that the hay is in the barn with 12 weeks to go but I still think more mileage is needed. I would DOUBLE your suggestion of 3M easy/day and TRIPLE your weekend 5 miler.

Smoove wrote:

CIM is a much faster course than NYC and is going to be stacked with Americans this year as it will be the US marathon championship.

Far more than 14 are going to go sub 2:20. I'd be surprised if fewer than 25 go through the half faster than 1:09. I know at least 5 guys who will be going out that hard from Florida, which is hardly the marathoning mecca of the country.

That will make it a great race for those shooting for an OT. It also means people are going to need to be disciplined and not get caught up in the excitement early on.

Keep us posted OP.

Smoove- Who are these 5 Florida guys that are that fast?

Honestly just keep doing what you've been doing and don't do something stupid to keep you from getting to the line healthy.

Then run controlled and don't go out to fast or do any stupid mid race surges. The two biggest keys to the marathon are get to the line healthy and don't do something stupid during a race. Running a mile or two 10 sec faster than you should may make a small impact in a half, but can cause you to crater in the later stages of a marathon. You will feel like you're on cruise control if run the first half of the marathon correctly, resist the urge to push it, those last 7 or 8 miles are no joke.

One thing for me is don't over taper. Dropping from 120mpw to 60 over the course of 4 weeks I found made me feel lethargic by race day. I found a 3 week taper where I was still running in the 80s the week leading up to the race left me plenty rested but not flat.

Eddie Garcia (UF), Ty McCormack (Clemson/Auburn), Enoch Nadler (UF), Jon Mott (Weber), and I think Jeremy Criscione (UF) is runnng, but not sure about that. I know 3 of throes 5 previously ran OT.

anyone trying to run sub 2:20 at CIM live in the Los Angeles area and interested in training with similar guys trying to run sub 2:20 at CIM?

LArunnwr63 wrote:

anyone trying to run sub 2:20 at CIM live in the Los Angeles area and interested in training with similar guys trying to run sub 2:20 at CIM?

There is a big group of from LA looking to go anywhere from 2:17 to 2:21 at CIM this year. Not really looking to add any new guys to our group though, sorry. I'll post here after the race if we lose anybody for the next cycle and are looking to add.

What group is that?

LArunnwr63 wrote:

What group is that?

Sorry man, shouldn't have said anything. We just have a really nice dynamic going on right now and don't want to risk it only 12 weeks out by adding a new guy/dimension to our crew. You understand.

Keep it chill and maybe we'll see ya in Sac.

Some good ideas generally here. I would though disagree that with twelve weeks out the hay is in the barn, that is a long time. Also, I believe in addition to the long tempo, long intervals, the Daniels TLT (Tempo-Long-Tempo) should be a staple in marathon prep. That is, 2 mile warm-up; 5 x mile tempo / 1:00 rest, 8 miles steady, 4 x mile tempo / 1:00 rest; mile cool-down.

Igy

I love the tempo-long-tempos. They are the single most important part of a marathon training cycle for me. The physical preparation is huge, but the mental shift that results from starting a tempo session 16 miles into a run, after you've already done 4 miles of tempo session, is a game changer.