Road Racing & Training Thread Week Ending 09/10/2017

Jeremy - Thanks so much--really--thanks! I live in Virginia, and I have been employed for the same company for the last 14 years, mostly as a writer and educator. I have a bachelor's in Communications and a master's in English. I will forward my resume to your hotmail account.

Thanks again! You are a nice guy (well, I already figured that).

Thanks slo-twitch. I like the 4x2mile idea but I did a 2x3miles on Wednesday. I like the 8 with alternating mp and hmp so I'm going to go with that!

That makes sense to me, and I'll try to reconcile what you've said with what I've said.

Running 400s at slightly faster than 10k pace or so (technically it's 105% of LTV) will result in a quicker buildup of "lactic acid" than running at LT pace. Since the rest periods are really short (20-25 seconds) the heart rate shouldn't go down much. In my mind, this is allowing you to get better at using "lactic acid" as a fuel rather than it building up in your legs. In the end, I see this as getting the same result - that is, preventing your brain from sending that signal of needing a break to your body.

In essence, running at a faster pace will produce "lactic acid" quicker than traditional tempo workouts, and the very short rest periods ensure that some lactic acid is still there when you start the next 400, thus teaching your body to process it more efficiently, which will (theoretically) reduce the buildup of lactic acid in your cells during LT-type workouts and races.

By the way, I appreciate how clear and organized your thoughts are - very refreshing. I don't have many people I can talk to about this kind of thing, so this is rather refreshing. Helps me learn!

slo-twitch - I've gone from doing 65 last spring (with a lot of quality - 3 workouts and a long run in a week) to doing 85 with much lower intensity (with the occasional week like last week). I feel like that's not a gigantic jump, especially with the drop in intensity (and the fact that I've been doubling pretty often) and starting out pretty slow on easy days), but I am planning on dropping the volume once I start some track workouts next week. Debating on doing a long run this weekend though...

Jeremy - I sent the resume last night. Did you receive it? Thanks again!

Smoove- glad to hear, we only lost part of our fence and thankfully did not fall into our lenai. Damages prob < $2K, but that fence was old so it was meant to fall. The fence fell on our pool filter but somehow survived and just braced it! With the hurricane deductible being 2% of my house, I don't think I'm filing any claims and the fence is not covered during a hurricane I don't think. Thanks for the invite, but I think we will just be cleaning up some more and running errands (threw out everything in the fridge), plus the wife works all weekend. I appreciate the invite though!

OR- Received it, let me take a look at what we have. I'll follow up with you via email.

Jeremy

@pewow -- Hope that down week has you ready to roll this week and the next several following.

@slo-twitch -- Really impressive week, even after food poisoning. Here I am encouraged by my 20K at MP and you go and bang out an extra 15K. Really excited to see what you do on the 8th, be it Chicago or upstate NY.

smoove, great explanation of the issue with lactate buildup and how different types of workouts and passive/active rest affect that. I don't have more insight than you so I appreciate hearing that description and also why the active/passive distinction is important. This is one of those things about training that I like to hear over and over, because each time it gives me a different perspective, or reason to pause and consider how this affects my training and goal races.

OR, again I'm sorry about the job. Hopefully you get what you need quickly. In the meantime, you can always go out and run :-)

running4fun - I'm also a fan of the progression run - you can make it part of your long run, and you don't have to be worried about hitting specific splits. Just increase from easy to fast. At the end you should feel like you're flying, but still in control.

martalus - stoked for you. sounds like that solo 5K was a good boost. You have just over 6 weeks til your marathon, you mentioned 3:20 as a goal, and you are feeling like a tempo pace is 6:45, and you ran a 5K time trial in 19:5x. I'm not sure how much your effort was for the 5K, but plugging it into the Jack Daniels calculator (https://runsmartproject.com/calculator/) suggests 1:30 half marathon and 3:08 marathon, if you are well-trained for those races. Since you are putting in the volume and getting 20-milers in I think the 3:08 is reasonable. It might seem crazy since your long runs are 8:30 pace, but you are doing the right thing; taking it easy on your easy days, getting time on your feet and letting your soft tissues adapt to the change in volume and increased stress that brings on your body. At the same time, you aren't zonked for your workouts so you can go out and run sub-20 for a solo 5K time trial. I don't know specifically about the kinds of training that help bridge the gap between faster tempo efforts and longer marathon-type efforts but it seems like the ingredients are there. You might want to play with marathon pace a little in your long runs, as a confidence booster. For example, run the middle 8 of a 20-miler at 7:15 pace, or alternate miles between easy (8:30) and marathon pace (7:15). This is assuming that 3:10 is the right target for you. The nice thing about this board is that there are a lot of different opinions and we will agree and disagree on a bunch of things but you can usually extract a signal out of all the noise :-)

Thanks team 1. I chose to run 12 miles today with 8 alternating between hmp and mp. Really struggled with by the end but it was decent. It's my first week doing 2 workouts in a week plus a long run coming Sunday. And I increased my mileage. I think I'll be at 55 after Sundays run so my body is feeling it.

Pewow -

Depends on who's organising mainly. The big track 5000m and 10000m 'festivals' I ran in were £8 and £10 respectively. Hosted by Kent AC and Hercules Wimbledon who have agreements in place with the local council over their tracks. For reference the last races of each day were won in 14:23 and 29:48. Also have a couple of food trucks, BBQs and beer trucks parked up inside.

The Assembly League is a Thursday night road racing league that's 6 races across the summer. 3m, 5k or 3.5m depending on the venue. Again, 5k winning times are around mid-14 most for the fast courses.

When it comes to XC, the 5 league matches, Southern Champs and National Champs are all free. The road relay events (6 stage and 12 stage) are all free. Basically the £50 a year to join a club is incredible value for money and that's without getting bespoke coaching from a 2:17 marathoner and 3 group sessions a week.

The half I'm doing on Sunday is a commercial company, so that's £33 but then with a discount because I'm a runner for a UKA affiliated club.

Basically the higher the quality of the field, the cheaper it tends to be because it's going to be organised for and by UK clubs, who are all pretty old school and just believe in the sport as a pretty pure thing.

Thanks Team1 for the comments and analysis. It is amazing that the slow volume did allow me to run a 5 K at 624 pace, which is like more than 2 min per mile faster than my long run pace. My plan has marathon pace days most Saturdays at half the length of the Sunday long run so I have been doing increasing distance at around 730-740 pace, albeit on hillier terrain then where the race will be. Next weekend will be a test as I have a 10 miler at MP then a 20 miler on big hills as I am back in Kosovo. Weather will be in 40s overnight so weather will be ideal from now to marathon!

slo-twitch - I must say, your comments came at the right time. Was considering doubling yesterday, but decided my legs weren't feeling super hot and that it was better to rest than get in a few extra miles. Definitely paid off this morning - felt amazing on my long run. So thank you!

Week is going well here. Will hit 60miles for the week easy tomorrow, so nice bump from the 45-50 range.

I love the short 4/4 doubles for recovering my legs. Maybe it's the blood flowing through twice but seems to help.

RRR - good to hear. I'm a fan of doubles too (if you hadn't noticed). Also, where are you located? Just curious...

Arkansas .. but the good part!

Having a Michelob Lime Cactus and watching college football, and I thought if you, RRR.

RRR, team 1, Smoove--all of you guys--thanks for the kind words. I love you guys (and gal). Love this thread...the best on LR.

All the best...

I dunno if it makes me happy or sad that RRR is synonymous w beer drankin' 😂

Be happy, my friend, be happy.

Watcha got on the tube? Some good ones tonight...

Just watched end of Florida game. WOWZA!!!!

I will watch the big game tonight. Clemson and L-vile I think?

Bird- I love ya man but I despise Bobby Petrino as a Hog fan.. so go Clemson!!