Ketogenic diets extend lifespan, improve memory and health in mice

Considering his "truth detector" is defective, not surprising.

if it quacks wrote:

OLD SMTC SOB wrote:

I'm not involved in any grand conspiracy I can assure you. I and my colleagues were challenging the established orthodoxy of the AMA, their dietary guidelines and cholesterol recommendations well before you were out of HS (or earlier) I suspect. But contrary to most that just flap their gums, we did the research and published the data. And the cash for the research was raised privately, with no funding from any government agency or corporation. You publish good solid research, well founded in science, I'll take an unbiased look.

I think your satire detector may be out of order.

O P wrote:

Considering his "truth detector" is defective, not surprising.

if it quacks wrote:

I'm not involved in any grand conspiracy I can assure you.

I think your satire detector may be out of order.

Ooohh Zing! You sure got him!

That's right. Keto is The Ultimate Truth for everything! Anyone who cannot see otherwise is just blind.

Some day the world will be One and we will all be enlightened to the beneficence of Almighty Keto. Oh how I long for that day. I Believe. I Believe.

Just eat a balanced diet. Read Nancy Clark's book. People always go one way or the other, not balanced. The principle of balance is very important whether it's diet, training or just life in general.1.) Cycled 163K three days ago, without preparation. Longest ride prior was 70K. There is no way to determine whether that was due to your diet or just increasing fitness or even a placebo effect. I realize that your experience is anecdotal however it's pointless to assume that going for a 163K ride is related to being "keto." I could go for a 163k ride tomorrow with no preparation. I rode 215km in Europe last summer on a rented bike and I cycle about twice a year. I don't even own a bike.

a pain in the weltschmerz wrote:

I had similar results on the paleo diet last year.

Dropped 15 pounds without getting hungry and was the same weight as when I ran my best marathon (2:22.29) in 1992.

The problem of blood sugar ups and downs disappeared and I could run 2 hrs plus as long as it was an easy pace, HR 125-130.

I couldn't race well or tempo well, though.

Still experimenting but what seems to be working better, at least for tempo and hill running is fats and some protein breakfast and lunch, then higher carb for dinner, like spaghetti for instance.

Sounds like a crappy diet if you can't race or even do a tempo run.:) As always a lot depends on where you are coming from. If your baseline is some variation of the food pyramid (i.e. decent amounts of fruit,veggies, meat, dairy, and starches) you are not going to see much of a change versus if your base line is Mcdonalds (lots of sugary soda, nothing that can be remotely called a veggie). You might think that is a bit of a joke diet but there are lots of people that don't get 2 servings for fruit/veggie per day.

Humans tend to like extreme stuff. It gives them a feeling of belonging. And in some ways making big changes is easier than making small changes.

Nope wrong again.

Do some research.

Personally, I eat less meat.

There is a way to tell if it is keto and not placebo, I wasn't blind to what I was eating and the other times that I have gone 160+K on a carbohydrate-heavy diet, I had more adverse effects, with preparation including a bonk and fades, every time. Good enough for me. This was clearly different.

And no I am not doing a balanced diet. It is arrogant to say, "just do...." and then fill in the blank with your personal recommendation. Sorry, Charlie. Not interested.

Sticking to some form of LCHF, going-forward.

runningapp wrote:

No one knows what our ancestors were eating. That was over 100,000 - million years ago. They did not have apps for logging their meals.

They were eating anything they could and that would vary widely depending on habitat. Suffice to say anyone who claims they ate one way is wrong.

ExpertKipWatcher wrote:

runningapp wrote:

No one knows what our ancestors were eating. That was over 100,000 - million years ago. They did not have apps for logging their meals.

They were eating anything they could and that would vary widely depending on habitat. Suffice to say anyone who claims they ate one way is wrong.

Exactly, perhaps our ancestors also ate each other?

O P wrote:

Considering his "truth detector" is defective, not surprising.

if it quacks wrote:

I think your satire detector may be out of order.

My "truth detector" is just fine, its my "BS detector" thats been going off non stop since reading some of the posts in this thread. And I'm not the one slingin it.

You seem to be heavily invested in ignoring any but a narrow range of options for all people in all situations. Very sad for you, and hopefully you are no longer a practicing MD.

OLD SMTC SOB wrote:

O P wrote:

Considering his "truth detector" is defective, not surprising.

My "truth detector" is just fine, its my "BS detector" thats been going off non stop since reading some of the posts in this thread. And I'm not the one slingin it.

O P wrote:

You seem to be heavily invested in ignoring any but a narrow range of options for all people in all situations. Very sad for you, and hopefully you are no longer a practicing MD.

He's probably a very good GP? Which mean he has had to wade through vast amounts of literature to be persuaded of any relationship between a set of statisitics and the veracity or usefulness of any hypothesis.

Ketogenic diet is just another fad diet. Both you and Chris Kelsall are proselytising the diet whilst admitting you have no power above basic low level endurance. That's fukcing nuts, an eating disorder. There, I've said it you both have an eating disorder.

Rene Magritte wrote:

ExpertKipWatcher wrote:

They were eating anything they could and that would vary widely depending on habitat. Suffice to say anyone who claims they ate one way is wrong.

Exactly, perhaps our ancestors also ate each other?

Funny you should say that. I just returned from a few weeks in the interior villages in Vanuatu. The guys there are all lean and ripped on a diet of ~100% white starch - taro, yams, and kumala (~potato). There is basically no native mammals or meat there, just fruit bats. These days they do have chickens, cows, and pigs, but my impression is that they eat meat very sparingly. They do use some coconut, but not as much as you might think.

Anyway, I was reading up on the place and 100+ years ago they did eat each other quite regularly. They'd kill and eat enemies, but they also would kill and eat people from their own village who crossed them, and they would regularly beat, kill, and eat women for pretty much no reason at all. I actually wonder if cannibalism correlates with a lack of available meat. Just speculation.

Talking to other NGO workers who work all over, they all love the people of Vanuatu because they are so nice and genuine (they contrast them to the Papua New Guinea people). They say the only problem is they are so non-confrontational that it can be hard to know what they really think.

I've worked with indigenous people all over the world and every place I've been their diet is very carb heavy. But I haven't worked with the Masai, the low-carb people's favorite group.

Maybe there was a time when our ancestors at low-carb, but one of the big keys to our success as a species is our ability to eat just about anything and to grow our own food. Apparently our first agricultural ancestors weren't as healthy as their hunter-gatherer ancestors, but it all worked out pretty good.

O P wrote:

You seem to be heavily invested in ignoring any but a narrow range of options for all people in all situations. Very sad for you, and hopefully you are no longer a practicing MD.

OLD SMTC SOB wrote:

My "truth detector" is just fine, its my "BS detector" thats been going off non stop since reading some of the posts in this thread. And I'm not the one slingin it.

I'm as opened minded as anyone, however I rely on objective data, sound research, practical experience and, most importantly...........sound physiology and biochemistry to formulate my conclusions. This entire thread reminds me of the chelation fad, ostensibly used to "open up" clogged arteries back in the 80's and 90's, by leaching calcium out of atherosclerotic plaques. Many MD's were touting its benefits, but what they were really doing is making money by charging astronomical amounts for the treatment. There was no significant research to back it up, and the biochemistry didn't support the hypothesis and its use. I'd still like to see that evidence showing Dr. Gerber's "clean" arteries.

"quackery"

Do your research, there is a lot of information out there to enlighten you.

Not a fad diet, but a lifestyle. For those who use it to diet will likely gain all or most of their weight again.

Certainly not a fad, as William Banting came up with the Banting diet well over a 100 years ago.

The saturated fat causing coronary artery disease was based on poor science, this is now known. In fact there are plenty of articles and YouTube videos explaining how studies were manipulated to fit a hypothesis.

The current food guides were all based on a fudged bit of science, now how do you feel?

FYI this so-called LCHF or Banting or Ketogenic - whatever we want to call it - lifestyle has me eating massive salads (just no root vegetables), berries, nuts, seeds, meat, eggs, oils, some small amounts of fruit.

So other than cutting out primarily refined carbohydrates, which you have to know is bad for you, my diet isn't so different from what it was:

No bread, pasta, bagels, candy, ice-cream, beer (for now), doughnuts, wraps, root vegetables, popcorn, etc etc, most of which taste horrible on their own anyway unless you add fatty or sugary sauces or in the case of bread, potatoes, and popcorn: Butter and salt.

Voila! Butter and salt are okay in a LCHF lifestyle.

You go ahead and eat bone dry popcorn or a bakes potato plain or a slice of bread without butter, jam, peanut butter etc etc...you are either cramming refined carbs down your throat or fats so you can stomach foods that give you an insulin reaction and then raised high density LDL lipoproteins.

Chris, your proselytising a quackery.

proselytize

/ˈprɒsɪlɪtʌɪz/

verb

gerund or present participle: proselytising

convert or attempt to convert (someone) from one religion, belief, or opinion to another.

"the programme did have a tremendous evangelical effect, proselytizing many"

synonyms: evangelize, convert, seek/make converts, bring to God/Christ, bring into the fold, spread the gospel/word (to), propagandize, preach (to), win over, recruit; brainwash

"I'm not here to proselytize"

•advocate or promote (a belief or course of action).

"Davis wanted to share his concept and proselytize his ideas"

synonyms: promote, present, spread, proclaim, peddle, propound, preach, back, urge, suggest, support, advocate, endorse, champion, sponsor, espouse, advance, further, assist, aid, help, contribute to, foster, boost

"they are preoccupied with proselytizing a liberal view"

That would be fine if Ketogenic diets were better than 'normal' diets, but your own anecdotal evidence does not support this.

I eat whatever, whenever. You have said repeatedly that you have no power and it hurts to climb a hill. You have chronically low glycogen, that is not right, for anyone. especially not someone who runs and bikes, it's an eating disorder. You are deliberately putting yourself into chronically low glycogen storage. And now you and the other guy are posting message after message advocating the same. What would Lydiard say? He would not be impressed, he would say what I'm saying. Carb the fukc up mate.

quackery wrote:

I eat whatever, whenever. You have said repeatedly that you have no power and it hurts to climb a hill. You have chronically low glycogen, that is not right, for anyone. especially not someone who runs and bikes, it's an eating disorder. You are deliberately putting yourself into chronically low glycogen storage. And now you and the other guy are posting message after message advocating the same. What would Lydiard say? He would not be impressed, he would say what I'm saying. Carb the fukc up mate.

Agreed. Listen to your body, don't try to game it. The human body has developed cravings for things for a reason. When you're thirsty, you drink. It really is that simple. Let your body tell you what it needs, it is designed to let you know.

I'm beginning to think that just about all nutrition "advice" is pure bunk.

They aren't actually getting the normal cravings for carbs but they think this is a positive, healthy thing, when it seems to me that they have denied themselves for so long they have forgotten what normal carb cravings feel like.

But this is a running website and Mr Kelsall is the editor of an athletics magazine. He has lost both aerobic and anaerobic power and he has lost the plot. But he wants to convince us all that he has discovered some wonderful new dietary science. I want the feisty old Chris Kelsall back but he's away with the fairies.

Of course the body "naturally craves" high fat and high sugar at all times. It wants caloric density. One can't just listen to their body all the time...that is why some many people are overweight and addicted to fast food. Hasn't Atkins been around for over 20 years? Nothing new or "revolutionary". Then why is this "Paleo and Keto" (and whatever marketing term of the year) even really that different? Also "Zone..."Number one killer is heart disease in the US often in combo with obesity and type II diabetes. Blue Zone cultures/diets have already shown what diets of longevity are possible. But now some people think we need to eat more fat? More animal fat? Standard American diet is already over 30% fat. High fat diets are linked to type II diabetes. Gum up your insulin receptors even more. All these HFLC eaters are not immune to the long term effects of a high fat diet. Invest in health care now because in 20-30 years that kind of diet may catch up with you. Please realize the vast difference between whole grain carbs and refined sugar before marking all carbs out to be evil.