Ketogenic diets extend lifespan, improve memory and health in mice

This has been a very interesting thread.

There has been lots of discussion about what makes for valid research and conclusions. It is amazing how easy it is to find very strong-sounding testimonials and evidence to support basically anything.

Although I suspect keto may be perfectly reasonably, I am not comfortable with obtaining such a high percentage of calories from fat over the long term. I do not think the science is there yet to really know.

Athletics Illustrated, you mentioned that you eat a lot of salads, some berries, plain yogurt, meats, nuts and eggs. I eat all of those same things, but probably in different proportions as I also do eat quality complex carbohydrates.

I’m not saying that is good or bad, because truthfully, I think I know less on this topic than most people posting on this thread, but I wanted to share my own personal experience FWIW:

In my younger days I never thought about diet a lot, but I was very athletic (serious competitive cyclist). Over time, work life intensified and I went through a two year patch where my activity level was pretty low (we were going through a merger and I had integration responsibilities… lots of late nights, low exercise). I gained a bit of weight (although I was still slim by North American standards). Decided I needed to get into better shape and took up running (much easier to fit into my schedule, which has lots of travel). Lost weight, got fit, fell in love with running etc. But my weight loss plateaued although I thought I still had a few pounds extra. Over time I noticed, despite lots of core work, I only had “four pack” abs. I could see the top two rows, but the third row was hard to see as there seemed to be a persistent bit of fat around the middle. I started to question my diet (which I always thought was OK) and then started using one of those calorie counting apps. At first, my thought was to restrict calories to lose weight. This did not seem to work. I would be really hungry and eventually “have” to eat more and the weight would not budge. But then I started to really think about what this app was telling me. I was taking in a surprising amount of added sugar. I was not eating chocolate bars or drinking pop, but rather things like hot chocolate in the morning, a “protein bar”, teaspoon of sugar in coffee couple of glasses of orange juice etc. through the day… None of these really registered as being excessive sugar sources, but I learned they all add up. This, combined with all sorts of reading, lead me to change my diet in two ways: I RUTHLESSLY eliminated added sugar, and I redoubled my focus on eating whole, unprocessed foods (I was not too bad with this already, I just made it a bigger focus). I did not really sweat how much carbs or how much fat etc. rather just concentrated on 100% avoidance of added sugar (e.g. no more bas, no juice etc.) and tried to make as much as I ate as possible whole foods. My snack of choice is a mixture of raw carrots, celery and “cherry” tomatoes. My goal each day to eat as much as possible from natural unprocessed foods. Those are my only rules. I don’t restrict calories or go hungry.

What was amazing (to me) was how quickly that last bit of belly fat disappeared. I feel good, I certainly haven’t lost any aerobic or anaerobic ability that I can discern, so I think things are basically OK.

It leads me to speculate that just getting rid of added sugar and concentrating on natural foods is probably the single biggest pair of factors and whether you are keto, LCHF, HCLF or whatever may be secondary?

Added sugar is not magically making anybody fat. It's all about total calories.

Sugar is not healthy if eaten excessively, but this sugar phobia everywhere is just laughable.

ergt wrote:

Sugar is not healthy if eaten excessively, but this sugar phobia everywhere is just laughable.

Sugar will rot your teeth though, if you do not take good care of them.

I think the point was that added sugar can easily add a lot of calories into ones diet without realizing the extent.

Total calories wrote:

I think the point was that added sugar can easily add a lot of calories into ones diet without realizing the extent.

Added fat has twice the calories though.

ergt wrote:

Total calories wrote:

I think the point was that added sugar can easily add a lot of calories into ones diet without realizing the extent.

Added fat has twice the calories though.

But if I have just my morning bullet proof coffee that has the same calories as 3 cups of oatmeal, I'm not hungry for awhile. I'm not eating anything, so I can't be gaining weight.

with a bullet wrote:

But if I have just my morning bullet proof coffee that has the same calories as 3 cups of oatmeal, I'm not hungry for awhile. I'm not eating anything, so I can't be gaining weight.

I can do the same with sweet coffee.

ergt wrote:

with a bullet wrote:

But if I have just my morning bullet proof coffee that has the same calories as 3 cups of oatmeal, I'm not hungry for awhile. I'm not eating anything, so I can't be gaining weight.

I can do the same with sweet coffee.

And WITHOUT raising my cholesterol levels.

ergt wrote:

with a bullet wrote:

But if I have just my morning bullet proof coffee that has the same calories as 3 cups of oatmeal, I'm not hungry for awhile. I'm not eating anything, so I can't be gaining weight.

I can do the same with sweet coffee.

But if you only eat fat you can't get fat, because insulin! A calorie isn't a calorie. It's science! And if you send Dave Asprey money for special expensive coffee and oil, you'll be even healthier.

Having been LCHF for over a year and still reaping an incredible array of health benefits, I still look at it as a tool, just like tempo v. long run, or higher v. lower mileage. Neither is "better", as long as it provides the benefit you are looking for.

My best events are glycolytic in nature, but I am not sure if I have taken a "hit" in performance due to not racing due to the previous setbacks with injuries and illness on a more conventional diet (lots of whole grains and fruit which were hard on my gut and blood sugar) These problems now have subsided completely with keto and careful, low-stress training. I am now going to aim for "metabolic flexibility", the ability to selectively add healthy carbs (no grains or sugar) before and after glycolytic workouts and races, not too much, just enough to cover those immediate needs, then return to LCHF for easy days/recovery/long runs. So: lipolytic for day-to-day, glycolitic for more intense efforts.

For me the baseline has to be keto-LCHF, anything else is unsustainable and as my blood work has improved, I don't believe the hype around cholesterol (which is blaming the fire truck for showing up at a fire). I also don't fear carbs ( like my Moscato or lager each night :). I just want a practical, empirical, "experiment of one" approach, that is sustainable long-term. It sounds like a few others have found this as well. Best of luck to all who are still learning and fine-tuning for the long road....

ergt wrote:

Added sugar is not magically making anybody fat. It's all about total calories.

Sugar is not healthy if eaten excessively, but this sugar phobia everywhere is just laughable.

That's always what I thought, but even calorie restricted, that last little bit of weight was not coming off, but once I stopped the sugar, but also stopped restricting calories, it did.

Now, maybe there was something else happening there that was a factor that I am missing, but no doubt about the impact I experienced...

A very interesting discussion as a friend of mine has been on the keto diet for a few weeks now. I just observed she has not been in the mood for exercise (lack of energy?) recently. She even had a very bad cramp during an easy run on a cool day last week. I guess she's in the early stage of the diet. Hopefully she's get better in another week or two, although I am very skeptical of this diet (not able to persuade her to not try it).

For those of you who don't think the diet has scientific backing, how do you think about all the papers referred in this journal article:

https://www.nature.com/ejcn/journal/v67/n8/full/ejcn2013116a.html

She probably has the "carb-flu" due to the reduced insulin level. Encourage her to take extra salt (7g) to make up for the diuretic effect and add a bit of magnesium and potassium. It should make an immediate difference.

bi-stander wrote:

A very interesting discussion as a friend of mine has been on the keto diet for a few weeks now. I just observed she has not been in the mood for exercise (lack of energy?) recently. She even had a very bad cramp during an easy run on a cool day last week. I guess she's in the early stage of the diet. Hopefully she's get better in another week or two, although I am very skeptical of this diet (not able to persuade her to not try it).

For those of you who don't think the diet has scientific backing, how do you think about all the papers referred in this journal article:

https://www.nature.com/ejcn/journal/v67/n8/full/ejcn2013116a.html

Also, apple cider vinegar will help reduce the cramping.

This interview addresses the issues with carbs and sugar and how the food supply has been hacked to hook you on processed food:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKkUtrL6B18

Note the corresponding effects of exercise: highly anaerobic sessions/racing (glycolytic- using sugar) > dopamine release; highly aerobic/lower intensity (lipolytic- using fat) > serotonin

If you feel compelled to run hard to the point of reducing your energy and increasing your illness and injuries, that is indicative of the sugar/anaerobic-based dopamine-hit taking over your running priorities.

Wow, the lifespan of this thread has been extended. So much of passion in a discussion of what we put into our mouths. Common sense and moderation, using at least some non-processed products daily in moderation, oatmeal, olive oil, eating when you're hungry, and if you like sweets, ice cream or so (these tastes good in my experience) then eat some, but prefer to do it after a run or any other type of a workout - because you can eat more of those things after a physical exercise without them ending up around your belly in a form of fat!

And use more protein instead of carbs in the late hours.

A deep-dive into cellular energetics, macronutrients and why all calories are not "equal":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPL2RYilUms

Note that for the purposes of body composition, diet is more important than exercise, and aerobic exercise is more inefficient in fat% reduction than resistance training.

What's with these wacky diets and Youtube vids? I don't want to watch an hour long video with 10 minutes worth of information.

Because true science is not a sound bite. Clearly you have never picked up a textbook and actually educated yourself.

Ho Hum wrote:

What's with these wacky diets and Youtube vids? I don't want to watch an hour long video with 10 minutes worth of information.