Eight weeks to BQ attempt - advice?

Man, I think that is gonna be tough, given where you are at right now. Any recent race results?

No chance with a recent PR of 3:40. At 40 years old, anyone who wants to BQ convincingly is not really going to get it done on any less than 80 mpw.

Set yourself up to have a good PR of 3:20-3:25. Take away the lessons, ramp up mileage in the next cycle and enjoy the journey to 3 hours and below!

IndyJ wrote:

My PR is 3:40, set last November. I'm running Indianapolis again on the first weekend of November.

I'm 40 years old and shooting for a 3:10 (7:14/mile). I'm running 60-65 mpw right now and have been for about 6-8 weeks now.

Right now my mileage includes a speed workout (mile repeats, a 5K test, or 800 repeats), a long run (about 20 miles), and a race pace attempt.

Two weeks ago, I did 12 miles at 7:18, hitting the wall slightly at the end.

Today, I did 14 miles attempted at race pace, and hit the wall pretty hard the last two miles. Ended up with a 7:28 pace.

So ... what should I do the next 7-8 weeks, including the taper, to give myself the best chance to BQ? I feel like it's in reach if I play my cards right.

Shouldn't be a problem. You're in around 2:55 shape.

What pace are you running your easy miles?

What did you run the 5k in?

Agree with previous poster that given this information it is going to be tough to get there.

Mr. Obvious wrote:

Man, I think that is gonna be tough, given where you are at right now. Any recent race results?

Not a race, but I treated it like one - 5K at 19:29 this week.

Convexity wrote:

What pace are you running your easy miles?

What did you run the 5k in?

Agree with previous poster that given this information it is going to be tough to get there.

Around 8-8:30.

Last week's 20-miler I started slow (like 9:45 first mile), then closed:

7:51

7:38

7:34

7:39

7:42

Best mile time is 5:44, set a few weeks ago.

I didn't train particularly well for the 3:40. I had gotten back into running outdoors for the first time in a few years and had kind of went ahead and signed up for the marathon as a lark when I just kept extending my long runs.

Say what? 80 mpw? I've run Boston four times now on 35-40 mpw. (2:54, 2:58, 2:55, 3:11) My current PR is 2:51 off the same training plan. FYI....I'm almost 40 as well.

IndyJ wrote:

Mr. Obvious wrote:

Man, I think that is gonna be tough, given where you are at right now. Any recent race results?

Not a race, but I treated it like one - 5K at 19:29 this week.

I think you are shy based on this race, your struggle to hold pace on long runs, and overall lowish miles.

I'm not saying you can't get there, especially if you ran those in very hot, humid weather and you get a cool day, but you need everything to go right.

I'd recommend a good number of long runs and try to get 4-5 weeks of 70 miles. That is a risky plan, though.

HMArunner wrote:

Say what? 80 mpw? I've run Boston four times now on 35-40 mpw. (2:54, 2:58, 2:55, 3:11) My current PR is 2:51 off the same training plan. FYI....I'm almost 40 as well.

You probably either had some base fitness and/or a lean body. Anyone coming from a 3:40 realm though is grinding their way down from "intro to cardio" fitness. Without bumping up miles significantly, I've seen 3:30-4:00 runners take many many many many years to run anywhere even close to 3:10.

Mr. Obvious wrote:

IndyJ wrote:

Not a race, but I treated it like one - 5K at 19:29 this week.

I think you are shy based on this race, your struggle to hold pace on long runs, and overall lowish miles.

I'm not saying you can't get there, especially if you ran those in very hot, humid weather and you get a cool day, but you need everything to go right.

I'd recommend a good number of long runs and try to get 4-5 weeks of 70 miles. That is a risky plan, though.

Knock on wood, but I've never had an injury.

find some EPO and do lots of miles and hard efforts

I would plan on three or four more long runs of 18-20 miles, not worrying too much about pace. Start slowly and as the run progresses, visualize a strong finish over the last four miles. Then make it happen, approaching marathon goal pace for the last few miles.Once a week, for the next four weeks, include 8- to 10-mile runs with 4 to 5 miles at 15K race pace. Best to run the fast portion continuous, but break it up into 2 x 2.5-mile with a couple minutes between if you need to. Or do 3 x 2-mile.Run one more workout like 3 x mile or 5 x 1000m at 5K pace.I would start dropping overall mileage with three weeks to go. Maybe 40, 30, 20 for the last three weeks.I am aiming for 3:05 in October, after running 3:25 a year ago. My training paces are nearly identical to yours, and my mileage is less, so 3:10 for you certainly seems possible by comparison. A couple injuries have been limiting my mileage to 45 a week since April. It was closer to 50 mpw from December to mid-April. I ran just under 19 minutes for 5K back on April. That was a race -- I doubt I could match your performance for a solo time trial. Over the years, I have run a couple dozen marathons, so I have a decent sense of what to expect from my fitness level and training. I am 58. Open PR 2:40 (age 23), masters PR 2:56 (age 43). Everyone is different, of course. Good luck.

IndyJ wrote:

... what should I do the next 7-8 weeks, including the taper, to give myself the best chance to BQ? I feel like it's in reach if I play my cards right.

While I disagree with this...

Live to run wrote:

No chance with a recent PR of 3:40. At 40 years old, anyone who wants to BQ convincingly is not really going to get it done on any less than 80 mpw.

I suspect that this is your best path forward...

Set yourself up to have a good PR of 3:20-3:25. Take away the lessons, ramp up mileage in the next cycle and enjoy the journey to 3 hours and below!

I'm in a somewhat similar position I thought I could qualify in Chicago for the 35 - 39 group in 2019 but I can't. I've accepted it.

34M

Last 5 weeks I've been averaging 45 miles with workouts of:

10M Race @ what is now my marathon goal pace of 7:30

6x800m

6x1m

4x1.5m

3x2m

A few 7m mile tempos @ 730 pace.

and a few 10m, 13m, 14m and 16m LSD

I'd say I would need at least 15 to 20 more miles a week to have any shot of coming close to 3h.

I think I can run 3:15 right now

Awesome advice again from Allen1959. I'm going to write this down for my own training. Thanks!

Allen1959 wrote:

Run one more workout like 3 x mile or 5 x 1000m at 5K pace.

Thanks for all the advice.

I was wondering about this right here - whether to continue the speed workouts. I don't want to lose speed. On the other hand, I want to have enough in the tank to do the longer runs at race pace.

Oh yeah all the workouts have been done 30 seconds faster than planned marathon pace. So 7m pace.

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM wrote:

I'm in a somewhat similar position I thought I could qualify in Chicago for the

35 - 39 group in 2019 but I can't. I've accepted it.

34M

Last 5 weeks I've been averaging 45 miles with workouts of:

10M Race @ what is now my marathon goal pace of 7:30

6x800m

6x1m

4x1.5m

3x2m

A few 7m mile tempos @ 730 pace.

and a few 10m, 13m, 14m and 16m LSD

I'd say I would need at least 15 to 20 more miles a week to have any shot of coming close to 3h.

I think I can run 3:15 right now

Alan gave some solid advice here. The only thing that I would suggest that you do differently than what Alan suggested is to drop the work out at 5K pace. The marathon is all about staying aerobic at as faster pace as possible. The best way to do that is to lower your lactate threshold pace so that you can run faster without hitting that threshold. The best way to cheat that is through plenty of tempo intervals. So, like Allen said, lots of 3 to 4 x 2 mile interval sessions at tempo pace with two minute rest in between, maybe some 8 x 1 mile at tempo pace with one minute rest in between. I also find that some workouts like 2 miles up, 2 x 2 miles at tempo pace, 8 miles easy, 3 miles at tempo pace are incredibly effective if you can manage to do them. You will find that the last 3 mile segment of a run like that will be a lot slower than the first 2 x 2 segment but that the perceived effort will be the same. An advantage of a work out like this is that a combined both a workout and your long run in one session.