Joe Vigil Mile Repeats

I think that you should build their peak base up to 70 mpw off mostly easy runs with a long run every week, including a down week after every 3 weeks. Then they'll be able to handle the quality work better since it'll be a smaller percentage of their total volume. Its a little daunting at first for a high schooler to start running 8-10 miles every day but you need to emphasize that these are easy runs and that they should do a faster steady state run only if they're feeling good. It also helps to let them explore their environment, maybe using a bus to go to a local park every once in a while. This will make the time pass by faster for them.

When you take the 30,000 foot view of Dr. Vigil and his progressive 1600m repeats, here is what you will observe:

3 weeks @ 85% of mile race pace

3 weeks @ 88% of mile race pace

3 weeks @ 91% of mile race pace

3 weeks @ 94% of mile race pace

Closer observation, you'd realize that this is actually:

3 weeks @ AnT (15k pace)

3 weeks @ Critical Velocity (10k pace)

3 weeks @ VO2 Max (5k pace)

3 weeks @ vVO2 (3k pace)

In my opinion, athletes that are young in training age OR athletes that are very aerobically underdeveloped, often have a derived AnT pace that is much much faster than what their ACTUAL AnT velocity is.

Vigil's plan works quite well for athletes that are as aerobically strong as they are anaerobically fit.

I'd suggest using 1,000m repeats this season with the appropriate paces listed above BUT change the work to rest ratio to the following

3 weeks of 1,000m @ 85% with 1:0.2 work to rest

3 weeks of 1,000m @ 88% with 1:0.33 work to rest

3 weeks of 1,000m @ 91% with 1:0.5 work to rest

3 weeks of 1,000m @ 94% with 1:1 work to rest

Friend of Joe - what number of work bouts each session would you recommend for this progression?

This varies with training age.

HOWEVER, I tend to focus more on intense long runs and error on the side of caution with these types of repeats. If you find that your repeat days are "where you put your eggs in the basket", you could add a few minutes to each session and still be in the safe range.

Freshmen 20-22 minutes total @ 85%

Freshmen 17-19 minutes total @ 88%

Freshmen 14-16 minutes total @ 91%

Freshmen 10-12 minutes total @ 94%

Sophomore 23-25 minutes total @ 85%

Sophomore 19-21 minutes total @ 88%

Sophomore 15-17 minutes total @ 91%

Sophomore 12-14 minutes total @ 94%

Juniors 26-28 minutes total @ 85%

Juniors 21-23 minutes total @ 88%

Juniors 17-19 minutes total @ 91%

Juniors 14-16 minutes total @ 94%

Seniors 29-31 minutes total @ 85%

Seniors 23-25 minutes total @ 88%

Seniors 19-21 minutes total @ 91%

Seniors 16-18 minutes total @ 94%

Friend of Joe wrote:

This varies with training age.

HOWEVER, I tend to focus more on intense long runs and error on the side of caution with these types of repeats. If you find that your repeat days are "where you put your eggs in the basket", you could add a few minutes to each session and still be in the safe range.

Freshmen 20-22 minutes total @ 85%

Freshmen 17-19 minutes total @ 88%

Freshmen 14-16 minutes total @ 91%

Freshmen 10-12 minutes total @ 94%

Sophomore 23-25 minutes total @ 85%

Sophomore 19-21 minutes total @ 88%

Sophomore 15-17 minutes total @ 91%

Sophomore 12-14 minutes total @ 94%

Juniors 26-28 minutes total @ 85%

Juniors 21-23 minutes total @ 88%

Juniors 17-19 minutes total @ 91%

Juniors 14-16 minutes total @ 94%

Seniors 29-31 minutes total @ 85%

Seniors 23-25 minutes total @ 88%

Seniors 19-21 minutes total @ 91%

Seniors 16-18 minutes total @ 94%

I would love to have add more mileage (as @Possible Solution has suggested) and have longer more intense long runs. Unfortunately, the heat and humidity this time a year is pretty brutal. I have found running a few more quality sessions, such as this, is better for us.

Good discussion thus far.

sounds like you are headed in the right direction with doing less of the VO2 Max intervals early in the season. 6 weeks of that is enough in my opinion especially with their other races. tempos, steady state, more mileage and longer runs like the other guy said. also workouts with short recoveries or float recoveries. the progression of the Vigil mile repeats makes sense though.

personally i would get out of this vo2max idea for working out. some people have high vo2 and are good, some have a high vo2 and suck, some people with low vo2 run fast.....

you need to do workouts based on their mile PR at percentages or a hoped for time at state. since you are a cross coach i wouldnt aim for a specific time at state since state meets are usually never at the same location. so i would go off of mile PR instead of vo2max.

first off you need to see how many weeks you have from the state meet and work backwards with your phases. the body can only do 3 weeks on average of specific energy systems before the body stops making progress. but for "base" or endurance phase your body can do up to 6 weeks before stagnating.

so during your 6 weeks base phase the runs should be done at around 75% effort of mile PR. so say runner at has a 5:00 mile pr, so 75% effort would be 6:40 per mile. freshman should be doing around 35-40 miles a week if they can handle it and the ones who can easily do it dont let them do more than 50. seniors should be up to 70-80. the best way to do this is 2 runs a day.

so lets say this 5:00 PR runner is a senior and you have him doing 70mpw, doing 2 a days, and a long run sunday.

mon through/sat - 3 mile morning run, 7-8 miles afternoon run @ 6:40 per mile, no faster no slower, sun 10-12 mile run again 6:40 pace

you do this for 6 weeks in a row, with of course stretching, form drills and a few strides. after that 6 weeks is over you are now going to be on a 3 week regiment that has to change or else stagnation will occur, if you do the workouts too fast, and or to short of rest you are at serious risk of injury and peaking way to soon.

so for colorado state will be on oct 28th more than likely, so for your 6 weeks base phase you would have had to start on july 9th - august 19th, so maybe try this next year.

then you will have 3 phases each 3 weeks long, with the week of state easy peasy to maximize the peak.

6 week base phase: july 9th-august 19th

3 week 1st phase: august 20th - sept 9

3 week 2nd phase: sept 10th - sept 30

3 week 3rd phase: oct 1 - oct 21

state week : oct 22-28th

lots of magazines, coaches, meat heads, cross fitters, online know it alls etc try to have a name for these phases or tell you incorrectly how long to be in a phase. some try to call phase 1 the aerobic/anaerobic threshold phase. they try to make it sound all scientific and use vo2 and max hr as the guiding method. no go with % of the athletes mile PR and do active jog recovery.

phase 1, week 1: mile repeats, 800 repeats, 1,000 repeats, 2 mile repeats all done at 78% mile PR pace (6:24 per mile)

week 2: 81% (6:10 per mile)

week 3: 84% (5:57 per mile)

phase 2, week 1: 87% (5:44 per mile)

week 2: 90% (5:33 per mile)

week 3: 93 ( 5:22 per mile)

phase 3, week 1: 96% (5:12 per mile)

week 2: 99% (5:03 per mile)

week 3: max effort

the base phase should be for this mythical senior 70mpw, then for the 3 week phases drop the morning runs and do 7 miles worth of running at practice and 10 mile run on sunday so the remainder of the year is 45-50 miles a week.

so if you are doing mile repeats, do 1/2 warm up, streaching, form drills, a few strides, then 6x1 mile repeats at the specific %'s, 1/2 mile cool down...this gives you 7 miles

on say 800 repeats do 12 of them, and the 1/2 warm up and 1/2 cool down etc

the rest given is another thing people are soooooo annoying about. 45 seconds to 3 min rest and no rhyme or reason. i am a firm believer in equal distance active recovery up to 800m, after that i would do just 400m active recovery.

this shouldnt be a pitiful worthless slow jog, nor should it be run way to fast, workout warriors always do the jog recovery way to fast, dont let that happen. the jog is to actively recover the body gradually while the heart rate slowly goes down, verses standing around for 2-3 min where the body doesnt flush any of the lactic acid out, hr drops too fast too soon or never drops. this is also a great way to keep the team on a team concept, try to have groups go together, and do the jog recovery as a group, so they all take off together.

so as far as repeats go, i say the active jog recovery is the best especially when the % gets higher, doing mile repeats at 93% and having to stand around breathing hard for 5 min is no good, but they go and jog 800m and hit the line again they are physically ready and mentally ready.

on the last week where it is max effort, only do 3 mile repeats followed by 4x 800m. start the watch while they do their 800 jog recovery, then after that let them relax walk around till 18 to 20 min for full recovery, then on the line again. after the mile repeats try to do the 800 repeats 5 seconds faster than the new mile PR pace. again give them full recovery.

Let's keep the discussion going.

I'm not even reading the rest of this thread

If you're in HS, don't follow anything Vigil says

That man is insane and only professional athletes can handle his actual type of training. And even then, most of them break down. I'm honestly surprised Brenda Martinez hasn't sustained more injuries over the years, but even she is 5x better in workouts than races and that's saying something because she's a very accomplished racer.

Step 1.Disregard this

Possible Solution wrote:

I think that you should build their peak base up to 70 mpw off mostly easy runs with a long run every week, including a down week after every 3 weeks. Then they'll be able to handle the quality work better since it'll be a smaller percentage of their total volume. Its a little daunting at first for a high schooler to start running 8-10 miles every day but you need to emphasize that these are easy runs and that they should do a faster steady state run only if they're feeling good. It also helps to let them explore their environment, maybe using a bus to go to a local park every once in a while. This will make the time pass by faster for them.

I went to a clinic & vigil said that plan is not intended for HS kids. In my experience kids in age 14-18 who have no prior running history peak after about 6-8 weeks of VO2.

I would strongly consider running critical velocity reps with speed add ons for most of the season with some Vo2 max stuff starting 5 weeks out to try to peak. CV workouts a great compliment to developing LT and Vo2 max, especially durning the racing season.

With aerobically underdeveloped athletes, train from a place of developing strength with some speed stimulus.

My thing is doing mile repeats every monday in this fasten is just boring! Though the progression I use with my athletes is similar from base to peaking i just dont do mile repeats every week. Mentally i find this boring for kids.

Another way to divide the 12 weeks is this:

weeks 1-3 @ 85%

weeks 4-6 @ 88%

weeks 7-9@91%

weeks 10-12@ 94%

From reading this thread, I am reminded that a lot of the Vigil workouts and "data" that are derived and used in his books are from his time as a college coach. Years ago there was a thread either on here or T-n-F Media that discussed and finally some Adams athletes admitted, were done at a park where the "mile repeats" were not actually a mile, but an approximation based on an altitude adjustment. Interesting the "science" that goes into the "foundations" of the sport, and those who have ascended to the top as "experts".

slo-twitch wrote:

sounds like you are headed in the right direction with doing less of the VO2 Max intervals early in the season. 6 weeks of that is enough in my opinion especially with their other races. tempos, steady state, more mileage and longer runs like the other guy said. also workouts with short recoveries or float recoveries. the progression of the Vigil mile repeats makes sense though.

I think the other races is a the big wild card. If you are running a 5k race and then doing a hard vo2max workout for 8+ weeks is pushing it for a lot of athletes. I think you would be better off backing off on race weeks and doing something like 8x1000 at race pace + ~30s (i.e. not really hour run pace for these kids but at the level of a decently hard aerobic pace) with 60s rest. And explain to the kids the idea is to run the right pace. Let them do the last 1 at race pace if you think it would help them to finish fast at the end of the workout (and if they can't get to race pace, you are doing too many or too fast).

My thing is doing mile repeats weekly builds mental fortitude!

Citius5000 wrote:

My thing is doing mile repeats every monday in this fasten is just boring! Though the progression I use with my athletes is similar from base to peaking i just dont do mile repeats every week. Mentally i find this boring for kids.

Save Yourself! wrote:

From reading this thread, I am reminded that a lot of the Vigil workouts and "data" that are derived and used in his books are from his time as a college coach. Years ago there was a thread either on here or T-n-F Media that discussed and finally some Adams athletes admitted, were done at a park where the "mile repeats" were not actually a mile, but an approximation based on an altitude adjustment. Interesting the "science" that goes into the "foundations" of the sport, and those who have ascended to the top as "experts".

Alamosa is 7,543 elevation. Vigil was one of the most scientific based coaches of the era. That is why the workload was based on running at sea level where the national races were held. The year I was there, besides the mile repeats, we also did one lappers in Cole Park. They were approximately 700m. I believe we would do 16 of them.

As for high school kids, I would lean toward doing 1,000m repeats for the 5k distance.

My high school coach had a great workout we did called the 4 minute drill. We ran it on our cross country course and you couldn't wear a watch. You simply ran hard for 4 minutes until the coach blew the whistle. You didn't want to go all out though because the idea was that you ran a little farther on each successive 4 minute run. We normally did 5 of them. This distance would be right in between 1k and 1 mile and would also teach proper pacing.