Any 1970s teenagers have these overtraining signs?

Damn...

Skinny runners with diarrhea?

Hot chick: "Ooh! Check out that guy! He looks like a runner."

She never knew the internal problems he had... Of course he looked like a runner. He built his body to handle the mileage. That also meant frequent outbursts of diarrhea and sore legs - essentially, baggage.

I've seen a few training logs from that era, and it seems like a recurrent theme is that most runners ran moderate or hard every day. Maybe one day a week was truly easy. We learned the importance of recovery at some point. Then again times today aren't that much faster than times then except at the top end.

Early 70s guy. Lotta guys I ran with now have hip and knee issues, ran hard every day back then.

weren't allowed water during workouts no matter how hot, back then so used to cramp every night, stupidness..

1970 times were MUCH faster than today for 95% of the running population categories.

To run fast you need to dig deep.

BoRegard56 wrote:

Here of over training that I had almost daily as a high school runner training for cross country during the summer of my senior year:

Persistent soreness and stiffness in the muscles, joints and tendons.

Heavy – leggedness.

Emotional Symptoms

Diarrhea

Difficulty finishing runs that used to be easy.

Actually my goal was to make my legs sore. Guess what I accomplished it every day! I was nearly deaf and I don't think our coach talked to anybody much about any this.

We really paved the way for today's kids.

Who else has stories of being a high school runner in the 1970s and how stupid our training was?

Have you taken time off from running? Tried just walking or hiking, and modest distances and efforts?

millennials are weaklings wrote:

1970 times were MUCH faster than today for 95% of the running population categories.

To run fast you need to dig deep.

This is blatantly false.

Lots more slow runners now. Also lots more fast runners. 70s guys suck compared to today's studs.

Gbohannon wrote:

millennials are weaklings wrote:

1970 times were MUCH faster than today for 95% of the running population categories.

To run fast you need to dig deep.

This is blatantly false.

Lots more slow runners now. Also lots more fast runners. 70s guys suck compared to today's studs.

I'd say for Illinois that the 70's guys that sucked have something to say about that. However being an 80's runner I must say that there is a much better field now.

13:50.6, Craig Virgin, Lebanon, 1972

13:52, Chris Derrick, Naperville (Neuqua Valley), 2007-3A

13:54, Lukas Verzbicas, Orland Park (Sandburg), 2010

13:56.6, Tom Graves (Sr.), Orland Park (Sandburg), 1977

13:57.7, Dave Walters, New Lenox (Lincoln-Way), 1973

13:59.3, Craig Virgin, Lebanon, 1971

14:00.0, Jim Spivey, Bensenville (Fenton), 1977AA

14:00, Jorge Torres, Wheeling, 1998AA

14:00, Jon Davis, Fithian (Oakwood) [Coop], 2015-1A

14:02, Soren Knudsen, Minooka, 2016-3A

14:03, Donald Sage, Elmhurst (York), 1999AA

14:05, Jack Keelan, Chicago (St. Ignatius College Prep), 2012-3A

14:06.0, Bill Fritz, Glen Ellyn (Glenbard West), 1973

Gbohannon wrote:

millennials are weaklings wrote:

1970 times were MUCH faster than today for 95% of the running population categories.

To run fast you need to dig deep.

This is blatantly false.

Lots more slow runners now. Also lots more fast runners. 70s guys suck compared to today's studs.

Lots of 70's/80's times on the UK all time marathon list:

Pappy wrote:

[quote]Gbohannon wrote:

[quote]millennials are weaklings wrote:

1970 times were MUCH faster than today for 95% of the running population categories.

To run fast you need to dig deep.

This is blatantly false.

Lots more slow runners now. Also lots more fast runners.

I agree

Today's elite might be better but the average 1970s kid was probably better than the average runner today. I wasn't good enough to go to invitationals in the mid 70s but so many kids today travel and run much worse. No doubt our sedentary lifestyle is to blame. There are so many kids today on teams who can't do push ups, pull ups nor run a 6 minute mile.

Coach wrote:

I agree

Today's elite might be better but the average 1970s kid was probably better than the average runner today. I wasn't good enough to go to invitationals in the mid 70s but so many kids today travel and run much worse. No doubt our sedentary lifestyle is to blame. There are so many kids today on teams who can't do push ups, pull ups nor run a 6 minute mile.

Or, maybe there's more invitationals. 70% of my hs team's schedule is "invites"

Used to get diarrhea a bunch, moreso in college. Could easily have been diet. grew up running in the 80s though. We did do plenty of hard stuff at my hs, but much of the running culture was changing to "train smarter, not harder" while I was in school.

During the time that I was running and competing there was a huge drop off in performance levels both in my area and nationally. I got to be part of that...Yay.

I would disagree that the depth of competition was better in the 70s, though, at least in high schools in California. The state lists are so deep these days, it's pretty crazy. This year there were 7 guys under 9 and 150 at 9:30 or better. This wasn't really a strong year even in comparison to other recent years.

Gbohannon wrote:

This is blatantly false.

Lots more slow runners now. Also lots more fast runners. 70s guys suck compared to today's studs.

He was just baiting dummies like you, but you took the bait. You are wrong. Look at the '60s: '64 Lindgren runs 4:01y; Ryun runs 3:59y; '65 Ryun runs 3:55; then Liquori and Danielson run 3:59. In the '70s there were several 4:02, 4:03, 4:04s. They would have done better had the tracks all been top quality like they are now. Also, those four fastest guys from the '60s ran that fast in Open competition. Had the runners of the '70s had the kind of TOP-level meets that Americans have had for 15 years now, they would have more sub-4 and sub-8:40 times than they did. It is not like many runners have run those times in the 2000-teens.

That Lithuanian kid did not run for his school, and was not a U.S. citizen anyway. Ches was 25 and was not a U.S. citizen. Maton was 19. Drew Hunter did not run for his HS team.

Times that were run in the '60s and '70s were these: 1:47, 3:39, 3:55y, 8:08, 8:35.6, 13:44.0, 28:32.

The depth was astounding also, considering that the era's runners were racing once every week and twice some weeks. Indoors and out. The last great runner who raced like the boys in the 60s/70s was Ritzenhein.

It is difficult to compare eras, and I will not say that the era that produced Scharsu/Hulst/Centro/Virgin/Hunt/Zishka/Nicholas/Hill/Pittman, and 50 others, et al was better, but that they were the same.

If the boys from 40 years ago, had the same excellent tracks, the same easy schedules, the same car to drive to school, the same Google to get their homework done quicker, they would be the same as the crew from NOW. Humans have not evolved in the last 40 years.

You know, this is something that's been on my mind a lot lately. Not exactly about the 1970s, but more so about trying to train smarter, versus harder.

It doesn't make much sense to me. To be a great runner, you have to train very hard. If you look at Eliud Kipchoge, for example, you will see that he trains very hard and has done so for a very long time.

I don't think he's sitting there saying, "We must train smarter..."

Now, that's not to say that you need to just go out and run yourself into the ground, but I don't believe in any shortcuts and it seems, to me, that the 'training smarter' crowd is looking for a shortcut.

Just my two pennies.

Gbohannon wrote:

millennials are weaklings wrote:

1970 times were MUCH faster than today for 95% of the running population categories.

To run fast you need to dig deep.

This is blatantly false.

Lots more slow runners now. Also lots more fast runners. 70s guys suck compared to today's studs.

Actually,'millennials are weaklings' (as well as whoever posted "except at the top..." then the same sentiment) is exactly right. Although WRs have gradually come down, the masses ran a hell of a lot faster then. Winning 17-and-under now requires finishing. Back then a marathon in the low 2:50s didn't get you on the podium. Hard to believe though it may be, at a random race that attracts no our-of-the-area talent, there were 3 or more teenagers in the 2:40s. I don't mean Fukuoka but your local race. One time I managed a 2:54, not terrible for me at 16, and not only did our posse (several guys from my training group at school rode with my dad) leave before the awards since none of us qualified, but I was also behind the girls winner of our age group! Unheard of now, but this was the running boom.

At 10km you often had to be under 34 or even 33 minutes to win the same division. Obviously events like Peachtree or Beach to Beacon were faster and even more so now, but the Turlock/Toledo/Tuscaloosa Turkey Trot is not. I've looked at recent results from events I had done long ago and found that times that weren't competitive in Junior division would be competitive in Open now. Again, this is not true of London or the Lisbon Half. Pros ARE faster now than then. I ran a 20 mile event in HS in 2:11. I did not make the awards (top 3) for my age group and overall was so far back I don't even remember: 40th? 50th? One recent year I would have destroyed the teenage division and placed 2nd overall.

It no longer requires sub-30 to win your bush-league Turkey Trot but it did once!

I think a lot of the HS runners from the 70's had coaches influenced by Lydiard, Bowerman and a few others. The mentality was no pain no gain. Kids ran hard and harder. In the survival of the fittest game a few very elite runners emerged.

The 80's and part of the 90's became slower I'd guess from the influence of Peter Coe's coaching philosophy. The "train smarter not harder" mentality was more the moto in that era. Not too many Sebs out there. I think the average mileage went down some and very few ran to a true "elite" level in HS.

The late 90's and on the very top times may not be as fast as the 60's and 70's. The top 50-100 I think are much stronger though. High School coaching has never been better than today. I'd say Daniels and a few other coaches are influencing everyone now. They are tying in a lot of great principles from years past with the scientific backing.

just my thoughts

Pappy wrote:

High School coaching has never been better than today.

Haha not true at all! High school coaches sucked back in the 70s-90s, currently suck today, and will suck in the future!

Seriously.

Don't know why you are listing times from a cross-country course, which are notoriously inaccurate from year to year and much more subject to conditions. Try something like this instead:5000 METERS13:37.91 Galen Rupp (Central Catholic, Portland, Oregon) 2004 13:44.0 Gerry Lindgren (Rogers, Spokane, Washington) 1964 13:44.70 Dathan Ritzenhein (Rockford, Michigan) 2001 13:51.69 ————Ritzenhein 2001 13:52.85 ————Rupp 2004 13:52.8 Steve Prefontaine (Marshfield, Coos Bay, Oregon) 1969 13:55.32 ————Rupp 2004 13:55.65 John Zishka (Lancaster, Ohio) 1980 13:55.96 Chris Derrick (Neuqua Valley, Naperville, Illinois) 2008 13:57.04i *Edward Cheserek’ (St. Benedict’s, Newark, New Jersey) 2012 **10 performances by 7 performers**13:58.2 Craig Virgin (Lebanon, Illinois) 1973 14:00.2 Rick Riley (Ferris, Spokane, Washington) 1966 14:01.40 Eric Mastalir (Jesuit, Carmichael, California) 1986

Pappy wrote:

Gbohannon wrote:

This is blatantly false.

Lots more slow runners now. Also lots more fast runners. 70s guys suck compared to today's studs.

I'd say for Illinois that the 70's guys that sucked have something to say about that. However being an 80's runner I must say that there is a much better field now.

13:50.6, Craig Virgin, Lebanon, 1972

13:52, Chris Derrick, Naperville (Neuqua Valley), 2007-3A

13:54, Lukas Verzbicas, Orland Park (Sandburg), 2010

13:56.6, Tom Graves (Sr.), Orland Park (Sandburg), 1977

13:57.7, Dave Walters, New Lenox (Lincoln-Way), 1973

13:59.3, Craig Virgin, Lebanon, 1971

14:00.0, Jim Spivey, Bensenville (Fenton), 1977AA

14:00, Jorge Torres, Wheeling, 1998AA

14:00, Jon Davis, Fithian (Oakwood) [Coop], 2015-1A

14:02, Soren Knudsen, Minooka, 2016-3A

14:03, Donald Sage, Elmhurst (York), 1999AA

14:05, Jack Keelan, Chicago (St. Ignatius College Prep), 2012-3A

14:06.0, Bill Fritz, Glen Ellyn (Glenbard West), 1973

Started trashing my poor body September of 1972. I feel fortunate and avenged somewhat that I can still comfortably jog/run 50+ miles a week.

Pappy wrote:

I'd say for Illinois that the 70's guys that sucked have something to say about that. However being an 80's runner I must say that there is a much better field now.

In the 70's there was only one race at Detweiler. How many classes are there now? There's no way the depth now compares with the depth in the 70's.

If you compared old Western Suburban League times (York, Lyons, R-B, Oak Park, Proviso West, others) from the 70's to now, those 70's teams were absolutely loaded.

We were in a different league but occasionally crossed paths with the West Suburban League schools. We had a 4 X mile relay in 1975 where we got smoked right from the start and finished fifth. At the end of the year, our fifth place time was the 13th fastest in the country that year.