True, Oakland has a better top group then anyone in the state.
True, Oakland has a better top group then anyone in the state.
For what it's worth, Flotrack's preseason ranking lists MSU Women's team at 19th. We all know how any ranking can be flawed especially preseason rankings that are based only on stats from the 2016-2017 XC and track seasons. I am optimistic and think they can finish much higher.
http://www.flotrack.org/article/60835-2017-floxc-countdown-19-michigan-state-women#.WaIvaCiGOUk
Flotrack's List of Probable Top Nine:
SO Holly Bullough (4:30 1500; 76th at '16 NCAA XC)
JR Jenny Rogers (9:52 3K; 16:43 5K; 134th at '16 NCAA XC)
FR India Johnson (4:52 1600; 10:23 3200; 9th at '16 NXN; 4th at '16 FL XC)
SO Karrigan Smith (4:27 1500; 9:31 3K; 10:21 3K SC; 163rd at '16 NCAA XC)
JR Amber Way (16:32 5K; 33:54 10K; 39th at '16 Big Ten XC)
SO Jeralyn Poe (4:31 1500; 9:40 3K; 16:31 5K; 181st at '16 NCAA XC)
FR Dillon McClintock (4:21 1500)
FR Maggie Farrell (4:54 1600; 10:19 3200)
JR Kelsie Schwartz (9:38 3K; 16:26 5K; 34:35 10K; 185th at '15 NCAA XC)
Flotrack, with a list of 9, seems to agree with me that MSU has a lot of talent and they are not sure who will step up to the top 7. They left off Gram who competed in 2015 but not last year. If healthy, she would also be a likely top 7 runner. Below are the runners I listed in previous postings.
McClintock has proven herself in the 1500 but has not yet raced longer distances since her recent success in the 1500 so we will have to see what she can do in the 6K. Not all talented 1500 meter runners are able to also contribute to scoring in XC.
Unfortunately, as always there are probably a handful of runners recovering from injuries so we will have to wait until the Spartan Invite to see how close these predictions are to real state of the team. Some previously injured runners may have fully recovered over the summer and surprise us. Others could step up to help including both freshmen mentioned by Flotrack.
Bullough
Smith
Rogers
Poe
Way
Schwartz
Goethals
McClintock
McDonald
Beazley
Fuller
Gram
Rudden
Kettel
Weiler
Rudden just won the Jeff Drenth Memorial at CMU, so I'd say she should move up on this list.
ifollowspartanxcandtrack wrote:
Rudden just won the Jeff Drenth Memorial at CMU, so I'd say she should move up on this list.
My list is not exactly in ranking order since that is very difficult to do especially after a summer of running and not knowing which handful of runners may be cross training while recovering from injuries. I would never claim to be able to rank them and personally don't to much faith into anyone's rankings.
I agree the Rudden appears likely to make the travel team not just because of taking 1st place but because of her time of 17:18 and because she was told not to try to lead until late in the race. The other runner to note is Gram who is competing for the first time in XC since the 2015 season and placed 4th with a time of 17:35. She was on the travel team in 2015 as a true freshman. This is a race where MSU and other teams do not all run their fastest athletes. MSU only ran about half their women and none who are the fastest and most likely to make it on the travel team. The two fast incoming freshman did not run. I think Gram and a few other runners who are also coming back from basically a year or longer period of injuries and recovery can improve their times much more as the season goes on and have a chance at making the travel team later in the season. The fastest runners almost always first race at the Spartan Invite. So we will know much more after the Spartan Invite. At this point we are only guessing based on only half the team competing at the Jeff Drenth Memorial 5K Race.
Below is an MSU article on the race. You will notice that Aubrey is the runner in the photo. I did not realize she had remaining XC eligibility which is why I did not list her in my prior postings. She has been on the XC travel team the last year or two. She does not appear to have competed this past outdoor T&F season. She did not run at the Jeff Drenth Memorial race last year and was 46 seconds faster last year at the EMU 5K than she was today. So she could be one of the athletes coming back from injury and may make it onto the travel team sometime this season. There will be a lot of competition for the travel team positions this year unless a number of prior travel team runners are not at 100%.
http://www.msuspartans.com/sports/c-xc/recaps/090117aab.htmlMSU XC Fan wrote:
ifollowspartanxcandtrack wrote:Rudden just won the Jeff Drenth Memorial at CMU, so I'd say she should move up on this list.
I agree the Rudden appears likely to make the travel team not just because of taking 1st place but because of her time of 17:18 and because she was told not to try to lead until late in the race. The other runner to note is Gram who is competing for the first time in XC since the 2015 season and placed 4th with a time of 17:35. She was on the travel team in 2015 as a true freshman.
I just learned that Gram stayed with Rudden and the other leaders almost the entire race. It was not until the last 1/4 mile or so that Rudden and Gram separated. So I think Gram and Rudden may be too close to call regarding ranking and who is closer to making the travel team. Rudden edged out Gram at the end of this race but Gram showed her capability in 2015 in making the travel team and now that she is coming back from injury she may improve her times faster than Rudden who has been healthy for the last year or longer. Both could make the travel team this season. Like I said before, the team has a lot of depth and many women who could make the travel team. It will make the Spartan Invite that much more exciting to watch. We will know then who is healthy enough to race and will be able to compare the times of all.
UM opened up yesterday as well:
http://mgoblue.com/documents/2017/9/1//20170901_xc_michigan_open.pdf
Back in the day Southwest College would put together some solid guys and make runs into the finals
Indoor? wrote:
UM opened up yesterday as well:
http://mgoblue.com/documents/2017/9/1//20170901_xc_michigan_open.pdf
There were some surprising results which always makes cross country and track more interesting.
Some would have expected Avery Evenson to be their #2 or #3 runner but she came in 9th. Transfer Audrey Belf is another surprise in that she finished down at 8th and barely broke 18 minutes. I think she would have finished 5th or 6th if at 95% for the race and would have finished 2nd or 3rd if at 100%.
Jaimie Phelan is listed on the roster at a RS senior. She is not listed in the results. Will she compete this year? Is she injured?
If Evenson, Phelan, and Belf are not at 100% this season then the team will not be nearly as competitive as we had expected.
Camille Davre finishing 4th as a true freshmen is great news for the team.
There is a gap between 17:10 and 17:30 that I think they need to fill and more than 4 need to be below 17:30 for the 5K distance them to get to the podium again this year. This is where Evenson, Phelan, and Belf should be running. I hope that Phelan, Evenson, and Belf are healthy and all three are able to run at their potential in a few weeks when it starts counting toward qualifying for the championship slots.
Partial list of results are below:
Overall - Name - Team - Bib No - Time - Pace
1 Gina Sereno Michigan 804 17:00.5 3:24/K
2 Jamie Morrissey Michigan 800 17:10.2 3:26/K
3 Madeline Trevisan Michigan 808 17:28.9 3:30/K
4 Camille Davre Unattached 764 17:30.6 3:30/K
5 Claire Borchers Michigan 791 17:40.6 3:32/K
6 Sophie Linn Michigan 797 17:41.6 3:32/K
7 Sarah Zieve Michigan 809 17:42.8 3:32/K
8 Audrey Belf Michigan 790 17:56.3 3:35/K
9 Avery Evenson Michigan 794 18:00.5 3:36/K
10 Courtney Munley Michigan 801 18:11.6 3:38/K
11 Sydney Badger Michigan 788 18:13.1 3:39/K
12 Rachel Coleman Michigan 792 18:15.4 3:39/K
13 Ellie Leonard Michigan 796 18:19.8 3:40/K
14 Rachel Barrett Michigan 789 18:22.3 3:40/K
You seem to think that if they aren't at their absolute best it's just a matter of not being there right now and maybe not being 100%. While that may be true they may be simply not as good anymore and may never get back to that.
Bridget Blake is showing up on MSU's roster. If she is ready to run this fall that's a solid transfer from Florida State.
Without discounting anything you've said: I watched Rudden run for four years in the UP, as her high school is in the same conference as my kids'. Because she is from the Upper Peninsula, she is a big unknown for a lot of people, and she went largely unchallenged in high school. I can tell you a few things about her:
1. She has a will like you've never seen
2. She has a kick like you wouldn't believe
3. She was quietly considered impulsive and immature
4. Because of number 3, the fact that she followed her coach's instructions to the T should be seen as a huge positive
5. Because of 1 and 2, I suspect she could have run even faster but for holding back, per her coach's instructions
6. She has completely fallen apart in large races before -- panicking and going out way too fast only to die in the last 1/2 mile. It will be interesting to see how she runs when the heat is really on.
Course where MSU ran isn't super fast either, so I'd say it's a good sign for Rudden who seemed to be a bit more of a track girl in HS than XC. MSU going to be pretty solid I bet.
The the big question, if she and others who are likely returning after injury are ready this fall. It appears her last track race was in mid-March so I assume she was injured. She is not the only one likely recovering from injury. I think she could be one of their top runners if healthy.
Regarding #6, Coach Drenth stated in the MSU article "She ran smart, she was really patient. I told her I didn’t want her to try to lead until late. I know she’s fast, so she followed our race plan really well but so did the entire group." I think Coach Drenth has used this type of a plan for many runners over the years at this race and the Spartan Invite. I think he may advice them to stay with their training group for say 2/3rds of the race or more. I think it is good advice to help them not go out too fast and also helps them work together in the race.
I agree MSU could be pretty solid. I was wondering if Rudden would be able to transfer her 1500m speed from the outdoor season to a fast time in XC. She has now shown she can. At this point every year I am just a little concerned about which key runners may not be ready due to prior injury. I am happy that Gram is healthy again and that she stayed up at the front with Rudden for most of the race. I am confident both can make the travel team.
I think MSU basically didn't run anyone they think will be on varsity on Friday. I'm guessing they are pleased that Rudden ran that well because it means maybe they have one more girl who can contend for a spot. They had tons of girls who didn't run and I doubt it's because of injury. They rarely run anyone who is 100% on the Travel squad at CMU. Now the question is, they had a few stud freshman who normally would have ran at CMU with the logical thought that they would redshirt. If they are training with the top group already they might be considering shirting some of them.
Indoor? wrote:
I think MSU basically didn't run anyone they think will be on varsity on Friday. I'm guessing they are pleased that Rudden ran that well because it means maybe they have one more girl who can contend for a spot. They had tons of girls who didn't run and I doubt it's because of injury. They rarely run anyone who is 100% on the Travel squad at CMU. Now the question is, they had a few stud freshman who normally would have ran at CMU with the logical thought that they would redshirt. If they are training with the top group already they might be considering shirting some of them.
You are correct. They only ran about half the women. CMU did not run at least one of their top runners. Many of those not competing go to the course to get in a workout before the races and then cheer on their teammates during the race. Looking at the results from prior years you see that MSU never runs the full team at this race. They don't run those most likely to qualify for the travel team. That includes not running the fastest true freshmen who are likely to qualify for the travel team based on their Spartan Invite results. I don't think Holly ran at CMU last year. They don't want their fastest runners to race too much during the season and they want to save them for the Spartan Invite.
The Spartan Invite is where we get the first look at the full team. All the healthy MSU runners compete at the Spartan Invite. That is the first race where runners have the opportunity to earn a position on the travel team. All the MSU true freshmen run unattached at the CMU race and also at the Spartan Invite. The fastest freshmen throughout the season who earn consideration for the travel team are asked if they want for forego redshirting for the season. The Spartan Invite is their first opportunity to earn a travel team spot. Two years ago one of the freshman ran unattached at races early in the season. Later she showed she qualified for the travel team. There were only a few races left. She was offered a position on the travel team. It was her decision to accept the move to the travel team. It meant loosing a cross country season of eligibility for a few races but it was her choice. That is one of the great things about the MSU team/coaching. If a runner earns the right to a position on the travel team, they are offered a spot, and if they are a true freshman they are given the option to accept the offer or continue for the season as a red shirt to preserve the season of eligibility.
The following is from the pre-race article discussing the Jeff Drenth Memorial race.
“It’s a good opportunity for us to see the young athletes find their way,†Director of Cross Country and Track & Field, Walt Drenth, said.
http://www.msuspartans.com/sports/c-xc/spec-rel/083117aaa.htmlTrevisan closed the gap Morrissey today. I have to congratulate Trevisan on a great start to a collegiate career last year and this year so far. There are a number of top Michigan high school distance runners that have had a much harder transition to collegiate running the past 4 or more years that I have been following the sport more closely. I did not see any results for Camille Davre so I assume she may be red shirted for the season or at least for now. I hope that Belf and Evenson can get back to their prior fast times and that Phelan can run this season. All the preseason polls assumed these three would be contributing this season.
-1-Sereno, Gina---------17:18.6
-2-Morrissey, Jamie-----17:30.2
-3-Trevisan, Madeline--17:32.0
-4-Borchers, Claire ----17:40.3
-5-Linn, Sophie---------17:42.3
-8-Evenson, Avery-----17:51.5
-9-Zieve, Sarah---------17:52.4
10-Meier, Haley---------17:56.9
11-Belf, Audrey---------17:59.7
13-Coleman, Rachel--18:01.4
15-Leonard, Ellie------18:16.5
16-Munley, Courtney-18:17.5
18-Barrett, Rachel----18:19.7
21-Badger, Sydney---18:27.2
http://mgoblue.com/news/2017/9/9/womens-cross-country-wolverines-post-perfect-score-win-mcnichols-invitational.aspxFrom Letsrun article:
Still, the Wolverines return five top-100 finishers, led by former triathlete Avery Evenson, who was 18th last year. Injury issues have prevented her from running anything significant on the track, and though that means she’ll be playing catchup this fall, McGuire believes Evenson can be a top-20 finisher once again.
“Relative to where she finished her fall season, she’s a work in progress but she’s healthy and she’s a gamer so I feel pretty confident in what she can do,†McGuire said.
http://www.letsrun.com/news/2017/09/2017-ncaa-womens-xc-preview-6-nc-state-5-michigan/
Looks like McDonald was the top Spartan girl today. Not sure what place she was in -- no results up yet.
Anyone else wondering what's going on with the Spartan women? Bullough, Way, Fuller, McClintock, and Weiler have yet to see action, and Rudden was a DNF the last two races. Kudos to the McDonald and young Farrell for stepping up.
whatthesamhill? wrote:
Anyone else wondering what's going on with the Spartan women? Bullough, Way, Fuller, McClintock, and Weiler have yet to see action, and Rudden was a DNF the last two races. Kudos to the McDonald and young Farrell for stepping up.
Well Rudden came back to run.
You left off Karrigan Smith. I am not sure what happened to her since her good 2017 outdoor track season.
There were many season ending injuries for both the Spartan men and women once again. If runners did not compete when you expected to see them they were either injured or not 100% recovered following injury. They are likely among the runners doing laps in the pool for cross training.
There are some claiming other issues in another thread at:
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=8540695I don't know the specifics of who were among the many injured this season. I believe Bullough was out this past indoor and outdoor season due to injury. Fuller has been injured prior seasons. Bullough and Way had serious injuries in HS. Weiler has been injured in prior seasons and is yet to reach the potential she displayed in HS..
Unfortunately you can be a state champion in HS and then struggle at the collegiate level with injury. Hopefully all the runners that have so much potential can display it in competition some day. Other teams that were highly ranked at the beginning of the season also suffered with injuries. Team that were expected to make it the championship did not. Some like ND sent no one. The year the MSU women won the championship was exceptional in many ways--one is they had a strong top 6 or 7 all season. Without the injuries of top runners the following seasons they would have finished much higher than they did at the national championship. If MSU could get all their athletes healthy long enough to reach their potential and stay healthy all season we could see them winning another national championship.