Is there another smarter way?

I found something interesting.

http://www.runnersworld.com/race-training/always-ready-to-race

That is really an interesting article. Many in the states have forgotten "the roots"

of Bill Rodgers , Frank Shorter and all the great american road (and track )racers. They didn`t use phases and base building with only high mileage.

Year-round speedwork and racing is taxing mentally and physically. For me, I actually prefer a high-mileage base-building phase because it takes the mental stress of racing away and lessens the chance of fatigue from overtraining once you start speed workouts.

mrtalent wrote:

Year-round speedwork and racing is taxing mentally and physically. For me, I actually prefer a high-mileage base-building phase because it takes the mental stress of racing away and lessens the chance of fatigue from overtraining once you start speed workouts.

It doesn`t have to be taxing mentally and physically. Some races one can just race at threshold pace and so on. I would say It`s more stimulating than waiting 3-4 months for next race. The risk for overtraining is higher the more you run. The "secret" is to find the right balance between speed workouts and mileage and the important rest and recovery. In the article: " All physiological gains are made during rest and recovery" .

E.T wrote:

mrtalent wrote:

Year-round speedwork and racing is taxing mentally and physically. For me, I actually prefer a high-mileage base-building phase because it takes the mental stress of racing away and lessens the chance of fatigue from overtraining once you start speed workouts.

It doesn`t have to be taxing mentally and physically. Some races one can just race at threshold pace and so on. I would say It`s more stimulating than waiting 3-4 months for next race. The risk for overtraining is higher the more you run. The "secret" is to find the right balance between speed workouts and mileage and the important rest and recovery. In the article: " All physiological gains are made during rest and recovery" .

For some people it is pretty hard to "run" a race, usually if I enter a race then I intend to race it. I don't think the risk of overtraining is higher the more you run, I think it's higher as you run faster more often. Having a solid base should reduce the risk of overtraining once racing season start ps because you'll be better suited to handle instense workouts after you can handle the volume. But I do agree that rest is crucial no matter what plan you have.

For some people it is pretty hard to "run" a race, usually if I enter a race then I intend to race it. I don't think the risk of overtraining is higher the more you run, I think it's higher as you run faster more often. Having a solid base should reduce the risk of overtraining once racing season start ps because you'll be better suited to handle instense workouts after you can handle the volume. But I do agree that rest is crucial no matter what plan you have.[/quote]

There is no such evidence that shows you will be better suited to handle intense workouts after a big base of volume. In fact the body is not used to the faster running and the risk of injury is increasing . When you run perfect controlled fast a couple of times per week year around the body is used to the faster pace and together with the correct recovery and rest a continuing develop will occur.

When I was competing I sometimes used a local race as a threshold run and could win easy. Often 10 k in 32-32.30 min and half marathon at 1.08.30-1.10. Races can be a good stimuli and brick in the develop.

COACH J.S

You could do something like Ron Clarke, Bob Deines, and Ed Whitlock did and do only distance runs but race frequently, almost weekly if you want to go for full imitation. But even if you raced less frequently than that you could do distance work and then race weekly or more for a limited time to round into racing shape.

HRE wrote:

You could do something like Ron Clarke, Bob Deines, and Ed Whitlock did and do only distance runs but race frequently, almost weekly if you want to go for full imitation. But even if you raced less frequently than that you could do distance work and then race weekly or more for a limited time to round into racing shape.

The problem with that advice is that you don`t round into racing shape by weekly races if you only do distance work as preparation. Ron Clarke and the other guys prepared with fast work and distance before they went into the weekly race schedule

JS,

You keep posting the same message/question under a variety of pseudonyms. This time you are having a conversation with yourself, as evidenced by the same grammatical style, sentence structure, and poor command of written English.

I am not quite sure what you are trying to accomplish here. If you wish to propose alternate ways of training, you would be best off finding scientifically-conducted research that proves your point, or being transparent about the results and improvements of your athletes and their corresponding training structure.

E.T wrote:

HRE wrote:

You could do something like Ron Clarke, Bob Deines, and Ed Whitlock did and do only distance runs but race frequently, almost weekly if you want to go for full imitation. But even if you raced less frequently than that you could do distance work and then race weekly or more for a limited time to round into racing shape.

The problem with that advice is that you don`t round into racing shape by weekly races if you only do distance work as preparation. Ron Clarke and the other guys prepared with fast work and distance before they went into the weekly race schedule

Clarke raced year round, often more than once a week. You could do that. And you could do fast distance work. Denise and Whitlock ran slowly and raced pretty much weekly. Neither was Ron Clarke but most of us would take their results and be happy.

"Deines," not "Denise."

HRE wrote:

E.T wrote:

The problem with that advice is that you don`t round into racing shape by weekly races if you only do distance work as preparation. Ron Clarke and the other guys prepared with fast work and distance before they went into the weekly race schedule

Clarke raced year round, often more than once a week. You could do that. And you could do fast distance work. Denise and Whitlock ran slowly and raced pretty much weekly. Neither was Ron Clarke but most of us would take their results and be happy.

This is what was written about Ron Clarke and his training in "How they train" second edition Volume 2: Long distances

"General training: Clarke trains almost daily the year around.His training from one season of the year to another varies little if at all,and any variation is unintentional. Each workout from day to day is remarkably similar. He does not believe in attempting to gradually build up his physical condition to a peak for a maximum effort at certain times of the year, nor does he advocate training slowly in one season of the year and very fast in the other. Rather he remains racing fit the year round, and gradually increases the quality of his training over his athletic lifetime. For Clarke training is a continuum......Occasionally ,not more than once or twice per week, his evening workout includes 8-10 x 220 yards with 220 yards recovery jogging after each, or 10 x 440 yards with 440 yards recovery jogging after each.These 220 yards,estimated at 26-28 seconds each,and 440 yards,run at a fast but not exhausting pace, are run either before or after the usual evening`s long,fast, continues run. "

COACH J.S

Ron told me that he really just did distance work for almost all of his "second" career. He did have brief stretches of time when he dabbled with other things. I believe that you're quoting Fred Wilt here and in that description it mentions that he trained three times a day. He almost never did but Sports Illustrated sent a reporter to do a story on Clarke in 1965 and the reporter was there when Ron was doing three runs a day so that was the routine the SI story described and for many it defined Clarke's training even though he stopped doing the three sessions very soon after starting them.

Interesting. What did the reporter get the thing about 10 x 220 yards or 440 yards from? Was it because Ron only ran it when the reporter was there?

Anyway it confirms that Ron seldom or never ran long slow distance and that he advocated same training and racing year around. Thanks

COACH J.S

I'm not sure where the reporter got the thing about the 220s and 440s. The group that Ron trained with was doing a sort of Zatopek imitation before he started running with them, i.e., lots of 440s but fairly slow and with short, fast recoveries. Eventually, by the time Ron joined them, this had evolved into a steady distance run where everyone started easily and ran together but accelerated during the run and guys would drop off the pack until maybe only Ron was at the front. This was all done at a horse race track. He also used to meet up with Derek Clayton once a week, maybe twice if he wasn't racing, and do a really hard 18 mile run on the roads.

There was a stretch of time when Lydiard was after Ron to do some peaking by doing some shorter, faster rep work. Maybe that's where the report came from. When I was discussing all this with him he was very clear that nearly all of what he did was steady runs at a good clip, a long group run on Sundays and generally a weekly race. The other thing to remember is that Ron and his group were just guys who ran and kind of made it up as they went along. There really was no master plan so they probably had times when they tried something different. There could well have been a stretch when they decided to so some more rep work than usual.

Another possibility is that someone knew something about Ron's early training with Stampfl and included it in the description. That would have been almost nothing but 220s and 440s.

Sounds very logic about the 220s and 440s. Very interesting to here your experience! :) If you would like to I would like to get in contact with you. Do you have Facebook? BR, COACH J.S

I just came to think about what Ron Clarke could have done if he had put in 20 x 400m almost every week. His best 10000 was 27.39,4 (WR at the time)Maybe it had not suit him, but I doubt that.

I am on Facebook. I also have a link to my e-mail here. I'd love to be in touch. I'm heading to the airport now so I may not be able to answer right away but I will.