If someone is trying to race you on your daily runs, do you take the Challenge?

Unfortunately I'm not into the math/engineering of STEM. Whenever I see MIT people I'm actually scared.

Could you tell me what it's like going to an open? Thanks for telling me about this.

If I just signed up for the 800, then I'll be competing against other people who just want to race too, right? There'll probably be coaches or people just scouting others? Or am I thinking too much?

No one will give a damn other than your Letsrun athletic supporters. There will be open heats and masters heats with a spread from about 1:50 - 2:50. Just show up, run, and get a time. I think registration closes a day or two before but you can sign up online - info is on the registration form.

I am definitely thinking about it. I have been to Worcester a few times, and in Holden too. I would go crazy if I had to live in those suburbs.

Thanks, mate.

Name in Hiding wrote:

Could you tell me what it's like going to an open? Thanks for telling me about this.

If I just signed up for the 800, then I'll be competing against other people who just want to race too, right? There'll probably be coaches or people just scouting others? Or am I thinking too much?

I would say you're not thinking at all.

Basically in your race you will go out fast thinking it's going to be easy and then fizzle out in a manner that baffles you.

Make sure you put down 1:49 for a seed time to make sure you end up in the right heat.

Do you know the feeling of chugging a whole Monster energy drink? Have you ever chugged so much carbonated water that it made you cry? Well, it doesn't make me cry anymore. I'm used to it. And I love that feeling.

I can't put a 1:49 seed time since I know I'm still not race weight yet. But it would be nice VISUALIZING how my 800 would go. That's what Nick Symmonds always says especially when he races.

Since the only real experience of a race I've had were a 5k and marathon, my strategies were to stick behind someone like gum. Then I slowly move to the next pair of footsteps and keep weaving by until I'm first. But I couldn't hold out for long.

I feel like race strategy goes out the window in these events because adrenaline pumps in. But I know for a fact that you must positive split the second half of the 800M.

I would go fast if I never watched 800M races, but then I know that you're not supposed to go all out in the first 400 because you will get caught and surpassed.

Dave Wottle and Nick Symmonds did similar tactics when they won first place: Stay in the back, but stay within considerable range and then surge in the last 150M with the KICK.

Please tell me. Are there only usually just men and older men in these events? I know that most T&F are the family members, but it would be nice being looked at other than in a competitive food-chain sense.

I'm a complete newbie racing others. I race cars on the highway and I always lose but you are right about me potentially fizzing if I don't know my true pace.

This is when my aerobic base building of 50-60 mpw factor in. I have to rely on that. I seriously have to lose a few pounds though.

Also the cost of entering, and then the costs of transportation, and miscellaneous items. It's already gonna be $60-70.

These are just my thoughts. But Pond Scum has offered me a valid way to get a FAT Timing. Right now, I believe I can get ~2:10.

It's when I lose ~7 pounds that I'll be in ~1:55 shape and the rest needs to come from within.

I just don't know if it's worth spending that much in July.

If you were a coach and I told you the things I had to do to get a FAT, would you be impressed that I actually ran just to prove my results from my training? Would that make you view me favorable for a walk-on?

Pretty sure only two men in History have broken 1:50 at 123 pounds..

It does sound like you are coming to your senses with the 2:10 talk. You're also looking for a way to not run at all.

No, I know what baiting is, and I know what responses would have come with me deciding whether to run it or not.

If you guys can casually just throw $70 impulsively, you're probably not a college student or you're married with a job.

Before when games were $50, that was a big investment. It would take me weeks to decide whether to buy that game. Now they're $60. I haven't splurged on anything except shoes and food within two years.

$70 means a new haircut or new socks - something that I need right now. And no, my race weight isn't 123 pounds it's around 130 or 132.

I'm not going to let anyone deter my training and I know what state my body is in. I just wasn't expecting an open meet to be close to me.

When I did my first marathon, I spent over $40 bucks for transportation. In addition to the entree fee. I got a shirt and a finishers medal. If I do this 800m open, I'm not going to get a satisfactory time for now.

I'm still thinking whether or not to do it.

But then again, if there are other fvckboys there, I will slay their baby-faces.

It's alright if I wear Split shorts on the commuter rail and just in public in Worcester, MA? I don't like carrying that much with me.

A shark was just jumped.

Name in Hiding wrote:

You think I did an all out 200? No I didn't.

If you read all my other posts, you'll see me saying I never go all out until the time is right.

I know that sub 54 in the 400 is necessary for a sub 1:50.

Usually for younger athletes you need about 52-54 + a 5 or 7 second differential.

Besides, I will beat you in an all out 400. You saw my legs. I won't show you my glutes because that's my real trump card.

Can't believe I missed this post.

You think you can run a 1:50 with a 54 400? No no my friend, you need 48 or 49 speed to even begin to think about sub 1:50. And to run a 48 you need 23 second 200 ability. Do you know what a gulf there is between a 23 and a 27 200? There is no training you can do in 2 months to close that gap.

54 is about the slowest you can be to run a sub 2:00.

10,000m runners Cam Levins and Galen Rupp have gone sub 1:50. We all know 10k guys have no speed and would never be able to break 50 under ANY conditions... can only run about 54...

"They never said it was going to be easy." - an old guy in his 70s with a dead eye and Boston accent.

I remember running when it was 95 degrees Fahrenheit with the same outfit that I have now, except they were Navy blue Soffe shorts and a blue/yellow Tesla compression longsleeve shirt.

I was stretching and just thinking about my workout and I was on the bench with my head lowered. To that guy, it looked like I was struggling. But in actuality, I was pissed and still had some pure hatred left in me.

He said: "They never said it was going to be easy." And then we talked.

He told me how he had a brother in law who played for some MLB team and had to quit because he threw a ball and it caused someone to have a coma.

He told me how he had a brother who went to Spain and he played professionally for a few years. I asked him if that brother had a successful life, and he replied: "He did. He's married and lives with his wife somewhere in Spain."

The old man told me how he had to get multiple hip surgeries and how he'd do 20 laps around the armory somewhere in Boston. He also told me that running in Brookline, MA is the best route for training. He told me how he'd play football and soccer and do all these sports with his brothers and how he got injured all the time.

He implied that he never regretted doing so much sports because he was young and he enjoyed it. But now he's limp. He later said that he's going to move to Florida because he can't take the cold weather.

Anyways, what I'm trying to say is, is that doing a sport or exercise activity is necessary in life. The life that I had before I took up running was never enjoyable. I was sedentary.

That old man kind of inspired me, but I already knew why I run. It's because I'm pissed and running calms me down. In his eyes, I looked like a struggling athlete. But in actuality, I was just cooling down after running on Pure Hate and I was meditating.

But to pay money just to run - I think it's a luxury since I know for a fact that when I get back on campus I'll be able to at least get a time trial by the coach.

Does anyone have stories of competing in an open meet?

Or are you guys all athletes with a support structure always willing to help you out?

I bet there are at least some people here who've had to compete in an open meet as unattached just to race.

Getting into a race as a dark horse - I think that would be cool.

Does anyone even follow USATF-NE news? Or is T&F not that popular if it isn't a highly competitive meet?

XXX_Thrower wrote:

observer_of_things wrote:

Can't believe I missed this post.

You think you can run a 1:50 with a 54 400? No no my friend, you need 48 or 49 speed to even begin to think about sub 1:50. And to run a 48 you need 23 second 200 ability. Do you know what a gulf there is between a 23 and a 27 200? There is no training you can do in 2 months to close that gap.

54 is about the slowest you can be to run a sub 2:00.

10,000m runners Cam Levins and Galen Rupp have gone sub 1:50. We all know 10k guys have no speed and would never be able to break 50 under ANY conditions... can only run about 54...

You think Cam and Galen can only run a 54? They have 50s speed easily. Also, they can run 5/10k pretty quickly, making a 1:50 doable for them.

Don't worry, mate.

I really don't think it'll be hard to run a a 48 for the 400M if I did an all out.

It's just the aerobic capacity that's limiting me for the 800M, which is why I'm always doing long runs.

Also doing the 200M, I think I'd be surprised what I can do if I do an all out. I am entirely sure that I'm not built for long-distance anymore. So that means I'm built either for speed, or speed/endurance.

I know that as middle distance runners get competitive, the gap between differentials decrease.

For high schools, it's a 5-7 second differential.

For college d1s, it's probably 2-3 seconds

For world class, it's less than 2 seconds

But I agree that I'm just talking about what could happen.

I'm not worried about my speed. For sprinting, it's about neuromuscular development and being familiar with applying force to your legs and pushing off for rapid turnover. That's what doing strength training, drills, and bodyweight squats have done for me. I have that component already.

I'm not worried about proving my times because I know what kind of training and workouts I've done, and I've always been CONSISTENT in seeing where my speed and speed endurance gets to me.

One time I got off the local bus and there were a group of 2 guys and 2 girls. They saw me in my split shorts and laughed. One of them pretended to be drunk and then tried to tackle me like they do in football. They only did that because my legs looked like a football players. It was in my neighborhood - it's all Irish.

Anyways, WVN proved us that you don't have to be a bulky sprinter to win the 400 or 200M. He's the skinny sprinter.

If you look at my body type, it's disproportionately large legs and a lean upper body without that much muscle.

Also, you've never seen an Asian 800m runner, or if you did, they probably sucked. I'm American Asian, and my diet is from McDoubles, Costco pizza, and cheap Beef chops and pork chops.

Everything I'm typing right now doesn't mean anything until I have official times, but I'm in no hurry to prove myself. That is when September comes, and that's when I will deliver.

I will come back to this thread in the future.

You are the person who is trying to race me in my daily runs, Observer_Of_Things. I accept the challenge to prove that I can a sub 1:50.

I will prove that to you by mid September.

If anything about me theory on running the 800M, I'd be glad if anyone corrects me.

I'm not going to race my training just yet. Nor, will I allow my training schedule to be compromised on a whim.

I'm finally done for now. Ciao

You are wrong on many accounts.

First, elites don't have 2s differential from 400 to 800. That is just not humanly possible. At best, at the very best, someone who is not a speedster could have a 4s differential.

Secondly, to run a fast 800, you don't just need speed plus aerobic ability forged through long runs. This is so wrong, I don't know where to even begin. You need 800 specific endurance (among many other things). The long run is about the last thing you need especially 7 weeks away from peak shape.

Thirdly, the things you list for making a good sprinter are plain wrong. The main way to get faster is to ... well ... practice running faster. Just doing strength, body weight squats, and drills don't make you faster. You need to run fast to run fast.

Go to a track. Try to run a 400. If you can run a 50 right now, there is a small chance you can run a sub 1:50 within 7 weeks if you work on the pieces that come together to make a fast 800. I'm guessing you might not break 60 in which case I think 2:20 is a best case for you.

1st) - I meant world class or people in diamond league meets for less than 2 second differential. Fine, it's probably less than 3. I haven't met that many middle distance d1 runners but I know that we score around ~1:50 in meets

2) - I think long runs are beneficial. But that's why I also have fartleks and hills. I've run to the point where you have to put your hands to you knees and bend down after you finish. That's what almost all 800M runners do at the end of the race. It's so exhausting that if you could lie down on the grass, I would. But I don't dirty my split shorts. Only with my sweat.

3) - You can't just get faster by trying to practice running faster. That's why I mentioned turnover and drills for neuromuscular development. Also I don't believe in being super bulky. High knees and working on arm pump too. And posture from squats. These are the core components I think.

Running a 50 400M split and then a 60 second last 400M split are what high schoolers do.

I'm not in high school.

I remember Nick Symmonds pointing out that the 800m training is very exact. I have his daily training log too though. But it has times when he drinks beer and does barely any miles. I will definitely look it over again.

You don't understand at all.

To be able to run two 55s back to back (or 54-56 etc) you need to be able to run a 50 flat out. I'm not suggesting running 50-60.

Long runs are beneficial. Lots of things are beneficial. For the 800, 7 weeks from peaking, the long run is at the bottom of my list of things that are important. Training evolves over the season. Periodization, brother. The long run is important in phase 0 - building aerobic base.

Ultimately, to get faster at running any distance, the number one thing to do is practice running. Other things like weights and drills can supplement it, but they don't replace it. 95% of getting faster at running is done through practicing running.

You would know any of this if you had any experience running and racing. Alas, you have never raced apart from a 4 hour marathon walk/run.

You do see how arrogant you sound coming here to lecture people with a wealth of experience, who have put in thousands of miles, raced hundreds of races and just dismiss them by saying b/c you do karate and body squats you are fast? A 1:50 is not something that you achieve without serious long term dedication (assuming you even have the natural talent).

I'm saying I do have natural talent. Just like how people use their base training of 4 years of high school to let them apply to D1 schools, I'm going to use my base training of 8 years of martial arts to let me run a 1:50.

I expect to find hidden benefits from training for 8 years, and that's just not fighting. And I plan to put that towards running. I don't think it's arrogant for me to expect exceptional goals. 8 years was an INVESTMENT of my entire young life. In addition to classical piano.

I had no friend and extracurricular through middle and high school. Partly because of this significant time sink.

To be honest, I don't know if I'm aiming too high because really, high schoolers achieve that time. The fact that I'm already developed and aiming for sub 1:50, I'm not aiming for some blowout talent results. I'm just aiming for what I think is my potential and that's 1:50.

But I will listen to you about doing race specific training. I will do that in August.

My vendetta are with d1 fvckboys, that means 19-22 year olds. I have nothing personal against other people past or below that age. This is specifically to put them down.

I am a newcomer, but I'm from a different background.

That's why it's so hard to get into T&F unless you're dedicated to the sport from the beginning. How can anyone be interested in watching people run unless you're invested into running already? That's why I don't think it's popular.

But I'm trying to get into the culture, and I'm going to use whatever experiences I've had in life, and why I became a runner to aim for sub 1:50.

Do I think I'll make it? A small chance.

Will I reach at least 5 seconds within 1:50? It's a higher chance.

Will I reach 1:50 if I had one more year to train? Absolutely.

But I've been running for one year now consistently w and now I've decided that this is the distance I want. And I'll see what my training has done for me in September.

I will look at more 800m training plans.

Thanks for all you've done. This thread is a time sink and it's just not worth it when this time could be used for living and doing other things.

I think there are two types of runners:

The hard-working, unsure of themselves one, and the over-confident believer. I like the ones that are sure of themselves even if they don't truly know they can accomplish it.

But it is doubt that is fun, and it's the doubt I have now that keeps me running. I HATE COMPLACENCY.

I went to my first marathon aiming for a BQ, which is 3:05. I truly thought I could do it, but when the ITB came I had to lower my standards. Still, a 1:27 half marathon is a good mark that shows my training is working.

I'll believe in myself for now and report back in September.

I first started watching Sage Canaday (Vo2MaxProductions). I've watched ALL his training videos.

Nick Symmonds is always talking about setting goals for yourself.

I'll also tell you something.

I've had a few chances of being in a relationship with a loving girlfriend. I don't believe in true love. I've given that up because I was too focused on running and improving my Heart. This all happened last year.

If you can tell me what you've sacrificed to become a faster runner, I don't think you can top that.

I've given up love and comfort just to run. I know if I had a girlfriend, I'll be complacent and weak. Especially since this is college, there's lots of insecure people at this age.

Only that Russian girl was one I looked up to. But now it's all gone.

One was a redhead. Another was a blonde. Another was an Asian from California. Another one was a brunette who reminded me of my first. Another one was in the choir and she was the sweetest, more graceful girl I've ever met - she is artistic and smart. The other one is a psychology major but she was the first one I made contact with in early September.

I decided that running to me was that important. And it shaped my personality and made me withdrawn. And now I'm alone. But now I'm intense as well.

But if I make it on the track team, they'll finally understand why I was and why I acted like that, and why they always usually see me run shirtless everywhere on campus and on local roads.

I truly gave up love and relationships and dating JUST FOR THIS. (In the end though, my body became super hot. So this coming semester, I will be redeemed).

I won't be complacent and just settle for some average score. One of my BEST FRIENDS got a girlfriend and you know what happened to him? He became a weak puppy.

I am not coming back or replying to this thread EVER until September.

So I don't really care about race-specific training because I have my emotions. Just like how a finishing kick can come out of nowhere, I have my Heart to push me.

Watch your back, d1 fvckboys. I will trail you and then surge past you in the last 200 meters.

My name was Fast Ass, and it still is.

You may have a fat ass but you still need to bulk up a little to break 1:50. Below 140lbs is too skinny.

One last thing:

If the object of Pure Hatred is yourself, then there is no end to it.

That is why I will succeed in the 800M, over and over again when the time has come.

If there was an attractive girl and you had to choose between her and running at your highest level, which one would you choose?

You guys would cave in instantly.

Observe me in September. How about dah.